Heavy's Axis Power Craps Forum

I looked at the average of placing all 10 tie bets using the egalite odds quoted on wizard of vegas and it came out at 8.4 to 1, so a better bet than the traditional tie bet offered......but still a bad bet

SCMan - wizard quotes 45 for ties on 6 or 7 and 225 for the tie on 2. It seems like your pay table might be shaving a bit off these odds.

London Shooter...thanks for the computation. I thought it might be a slightly better bet than the regular 8:1 bet and naturally you have more at risk.

Yes, they have shaved down the payoff odds a bit. 40:1 and 210:1

Finally sat down and read this thread from beginning. Lots of great info here and links to things to read and see. Thanks

Played my first game of baccarat last week. I like it. I have no idea about the different charts they show you, so lots of learning needed.

The mini baccarat in Australia (Star properties) is on computer terminal with a live dealer working two shoes back to back. Great to see them load the shoes and that it's not a continuous shuffle. They use an auto shuffler between shoes where the cards are put into a vertical hopper and then disappear into the table like an elevator going down then pop back up after a bit ready to reload into the shoe. Very nice.

Heavy I'd be interested in road testing your battle plan even if it's not officially ready for public yet. Share the buy now link when you have one and I'll grab a copy.

scman - a quick follow up on the tie/egalite discussion. I have noticed that baccarat at the casino I frequent in London pays 9:1. So over here this is better on average than combining all the egalite bets.

LS...Ahhhh, you are more fortunate! Yes, that does change things on your end. Thanks for the info.

Since the Egalite Tie bet is new here, I have been observing the six tables here out of curiosity, several days a week, which offer this bet. I am only supposing that since this is a new bet here, the players are going wild over betting this opportunity.

Just in a general observation, the players have been winning big when a Tie results...many 150:1 and 200:1 payoffs. I have noticed that there are usually, on average, about 5-6 Ties per shoe. Some shoes have produced twice that. The odd thing I noticed was that in shoes that produced more than 6 Ties, their were at least one result of back to back Ties.

I have also noticed that, be it a superstition or strategy, players will most likely repeat a winning side bet result of Tie/Pair. I can't help but think this is the reason for players getting big wins naturally on these multiple high Tie result shoes.

When I was playing at the Gold Coast there were an abundance of Panda (25-1) and Dragon (40-1) payoffs. Seemed to be a bit above the average for those bets. Player seemed to dominate on many shoes I played.

There's actually a card counting strategy (who'd have thunk it) for baccarat geared specifically toward the Dragon side bets. Applied properly, I'm told it is possible to gain a fairly substantial advantage on what SHOULD be a severely DISadvantaged bet. The Wizard of Odds posted an article by Michael Bluejay on this topic some time ago. It's located here:

https://wizardofodds.com/games/baccarat/dragon-bet/

I use the dragon when playing commission free to off-set the tie senerio on my progression. It has been awhile since I have played so I can't remember all the ins and outs, but it worked out well. Proper use only otherwise sucker bet.

While in was in SE Texas/Lake Charles I went deep in the Bacc learning. Your choice of strategy is casino dependent IMHO. How they deal with their cards.

(this is year old data)

Isle of Debris_ Hand washed then older shuffle machine = NOR cash machine I stone cold killed this place to the point of not getting any rating at all my last 3 trips. 6 hours and zero comp$ 3 different times.

Gold Nugget LC_Factory shuffled straight into new shuffle machine= Dog fight! No determinable patterns at all ever. Now you have to see the lack of pattern as pattern then play for a *return to mean*. Very tough! I stopped buying in at a table and stared walking the floor looking for opportunities and then dropping in. If I was on one table Id sometimes only bet 3-4 times a shoe often I'd be the only one on Player and the rest of the table is on Banker or visa-versa.

Labarge_Factory shuffled not as tough as GN, but tough. About like the IP in Biloxi. New shoes be wary and play Return to Mean later in the evening you can play some NOR/RtM.

When I say Return to Mean I'm playing MDB. As always cash mgt is king.

What does NOR and MDB stand for?

They are baccarat systems that are sold on other websites. MDB stands for Million Dollar Baccarat. I'm not sure what NOR stands for. Both are, I believe, systems that look at statistics from prior decisions to make bet decisions on future hands. I don't have copies of either but would love a peek at them if anyone has them. However, please do NOT post the specific strategies on the forum as I don't want to get into copyright disputes with anyone. Thanks.

Ok Heavy. Thanks for clarifying. Didn't know they were system plays.

London Shooter...NOR, (N) Neutral (O) Opposites (R) Repeats is a betting strategy from Beat The Casino website forum. I DO own the manual.

NOR actually describes a shoe's overall results...Choppy (Opposites), Streaks (Repeats) or Neutral (roughly the same amount of Chops or Streaks).

I do know that some of the basics seminars were on Youtube somewhere. In a classroom setting, he runs through betting several actual casino shoes and explains which strategy he would use and why. IMO, the Youtube video seminars reveal about 70% of the strategies from the copyrighted manual. Go figure???

I had the NOR manual as well. I tested it and like everything else it won and lost. It is no holy grail. Through the years I have tested more bacc systems than I can recall. I have yet to find one that will make me quit my job. Bacc had been my game of choice for close to two decades.

Long time ago I tested a system that beat 1k shoes for close to one unit per shoe. I played it at the casino only to lose. I tested it again for a little under 1k shoes more and it lost one unit per shoe. I thought I was unto something. The commission eats you up.

That is the closest I came to thinking I can beat bacc. Funny thing is I can go to my locals and it will be the same 100 or more Asians playing bacc day in day out.

100 or more Asians, all being eaten up by the commission

To the members here that have the NOR manual, I read a post on their website that the CSM, which, in their opinion is close to a RNG. Any thoughts on how that has changed the game?

The claim is also made that the casinos can fix the deck if the automatic shuffler is used. The fix is made to eliminate streaks. You get more terrible twos and back and forth results. Card counting would be worthless. Anybody confirm this claim?

thnick wrote:The claim is also made that the casinos can fix the deck if the automatic shuffler is used. The fix is made to eliminate streaks. You get more terrible twos and back and forth results. Card counting would be worthless. Anybody confirm this claim?

<
The dealer still burns a number of cards prior to the deal.....
.
In the way back clock of stuff,someone authored a greater number of Tie decisions
would show when the 8 deck shoe is cut
PRECISELY (in the dead middle )
.
Can any of that change either the randomness or the clumping in an eight deck shoe

just me saying

w c

As I understand them, Shufflemaster shoes don't actually "shuffle" the cards. When the cards are inserted into the machine they are inserted into one of many trays. The machine moves those trays around and alternately selects cards from various trays to deal. In blackjack it makes it almost impossible to count cards and all but makes perfect strategy useless. The last numbers I saw gave perfect strategy players a minuscule edge. I fell like the automatic shuffle machines do make counting pretty much useless. Personally, I am a streak player at baccarat. I don't play side bets, so there's little point in counting IMHO.

In my observations over the past six years here in the Philippines, I have noticed the automatic shufflers to deal out a higher majority of streak shoes mostly. The funny thing is...when the big streaks stop, the chop ensues. When the chop stops, the streaks seem to pick back up. It almost seems like the shoes keep repeating themselves in cycles.

If this trend seems to hold true Stratocasterman
Might you have discovered a biased in the way the shuffler works, kind of along the same vein as a biased roulette wheel.