DARKSIDE POP QUIZ

This Forum is Under Construction! By popular demand, it's the return of Heavy's Wrong Way Craps forum - where the discussions focus on the Dark Side of casino craps. Questions about playing the Don'ts, Lay Bets, and Laying Odds? You've come to the right place. You'll find all that - plus Dark Side strategies for Dice Influencers - and MORE! Come on in.

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DARKSIDE POP QUIZ

Post by DarthNater » Sat Jul 03, 2021 10:46 pm

Two nights ago at a locals-centric 14 footer well off strip, I encountered the following... three guys shooting from SOR on the DP; two were betting $10 flats with single odds, while the guy in the middle was betting $25 flats and laying a good sized stack of reds and greens. Alcohol did not appear to be a factor; all three were betting HiLos on the comeout, and were cheerfully shouting “we’re no good” with joy to any one who approached the table. One guy stood at SR1 and watched a PSO and ran away as they begged him to comeback.

I bought in at SOR, and bet the DP.

What would you do?

DN8R

Ps for fun, full session report next week after we see your answers.....
Your lack of faith in The Force disturbs me, Commander.......

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Re: DARKSIDE POP QUIZ

Post by heavy » Sat Jul 03, 2021 11:10 pm

Buy in at SR1 and bet the DP. Wait for the dice and play OHCM.
"Get in, get up, and get gone."
- Heavy

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Re: DARKSIDE POP QUIZ

Post by thnick » Sun Jul 04, 2021 9:14 am

The old thing..random shooters, right? Stay away or $33 DP nick's cannot lose until you get dice. $30 6,8 gets you +$2, same with 5 or 9..You want the ten bad.

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Re: DARKSIDE POP QUIZ

Post by DarthNater » Sun Jul 04, 2021 7:33 pm

thnick wrote:
Sun Jul 04, 2021 9:14 am
$33 DP nick's cannot lose until you get dice. $30 6,8 gets you +$2, same with 5 or 9..You want the ten bad.
Huh? Did you leave off a sentence, buddy?

DN8R
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Re: DARKSIDE POP QUIZ

Post by thnick » Sun Jul 04, 2021 8:46 pm

No. What sentence? Probably could have been more clear. Here. A random shooter is about to throw the dice. You make a $33 DP bet. Let's say he/she throws a 6 on the come out. You now place the 6 for $30. If the six hits you win $2. Either way you will win. Seven hits you win $3, right? The best is the 10 or 4 on the come out. Now you have a DP for $33 on the 4 or 10. You buy the 4 or 10 for $30. You will either win $3 on the outcome or the payoff will be $59 - your DP bet of $33 for a profit of $26.

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Re: DARKSIDE POP QUIZ

Post by 22Inside » Sun Jul 04, 2021 10:48 pm

thnick wrote:
Sun Jul 04, 2021 8:46 pm
No. What sentence? Probably could have been more clear. Here. A random shooter is about to throw the dice. You make a $33 DP bet. Let's say he/she throws a 6 on the come out. You now place the 6 for $30. If the six hits you win $2. Either way you will win. Seven hits you win $3, right? The best is the 10 or 4 on the come out. Now you have a DP for $33 on the 4 or 10. You buy the 4 or 10 for $30. You will either win $3 on the outcome or the payoff will be $59 - your DP bet of $33 for a profit of $26.
So, $33 DP. If you make it past the come out unscathed, place the point for $30 and wait

If 7 tossed, win a net of $3

If point is 6 or 8, win net of $2
If point is 5 or 9, win net of $9
If point is 4 or 10, win net of $26

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Re: DARKSIDE POP QUIZ

Post by DarthNater » Mon Jul 05, 2021 12:37 am

That’s similar to a John Patrick play. But what about the Sheriff and the Deputy?

Do you martingale the DP? CTSL it? Fibo? Or try another DP?

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Re: DARKSIDE POP QUIZ

Post by Golfer » Mon Jul 05, 2021 7:02 am

Join the party and jump in the dark side pool. When you get the dice shoot from the DP to show the boys you are the real deal and hold on. 😎

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Re: DARKSIDE POP QUIZ

Post by thnick » Mon Jul 05, 2021 7:38 am

I personally don't continue with shooters that knock me off on the comeout and I don't generally use darkside play unless I'm tracking rolls and
they look something like this.
*****7
***7
**7
Or I'm on a table, get annoyed by either the box or some idiot, and start throwing for sevens with my best low coaster set when I get the dice.
Yeah we always have to put up with the sheriff and the deputy and I used to often hedge against the yo. As of late, I've stopped doing that. Just take the loss and move on.

Just try and give myself every advantage I can

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Re: DARKSIDE POP QUIZ

Post by Tgold » Thu Jul 08, 2021 12:19 pm

Hi Darth, thx and good post. Good thoughts everyone.

NEI (Not enough intel).

Since I wouldnt know if the three amigos had just switched to the Donts, or thats just the way they always wager, or they didnt appear inebriated (as u suggested), however, maybe they had just taken their daily cannabis Rx,...etc. Maybe just buddies out having fun,..etc and in a jovial mood. So since I may not be able to infer much from them I would prob just ask the stick his opinion or whatever my specific question. If not able to glean much I would simply do a Lay6 @ 1.0 base unit until I was shooting and then maybe do a DP at 1.0 BU no odds/ hopefully I would then have 5-10mins of info or current trend.

Bottomline: Just wager a single low HE wager at 1.0 bu, take my chances. IOW just give my money a fair shot and accept the results--which isnt alot different then what I would do on any table regardless of how much intel or perceived intel I had accumulated (or not). IMO it never hurts to go with a perceived trend as we are not changing the HE, EV, Prob,..etc and who knows the short-term trend may not end in the near term.


Cheers,
All the best,
Tgold

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Re: DARKSIDE POP QUIZ

Post by mainframe » Tue Jul 13, 2021 4:34 pm

Nate: Do you normally shoot from the don'ts when you are rolling?

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Re: DARKSIDE POP QUIZ

Post by DarthNater » Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:11 am

mainframe wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 4:34 pm
Nate: Do you normally shoot from the don'ts when you are rolling?
I used to shoot more from the don’ts before the ‘rona.
When the casinos reopened with three aside I evolved to the pass line more and more.

Plus one month before the ‘rona hit, I had my fateful 3 hour meeting with Coaster, which lead to transitioning his Word files into Excel then deep diving into all the transpositions. That’s given me more freedom and confidence to switch sets in mid hand so my approach has evolved for when I shot. Of course if it’s an unknown table then my first play is normally a DP and the ATS.

I still predominantly Darkside every other shooter that I don’t know, and use a lot of OHCM variations if the table is trending warm, DN8R
Your lack of faith in The Force disturbs me, Commander.......

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Re: DARKSIDE POP QUIZ

Post by mainframe » Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:21 am

DarthNater wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:11 am
mainframe wrote:
Tue Jul 13, 2021 4:34 pm
Nate: Do you normally shoot from the don'ts when you are rolling?
I used to shoot more from the don’ts before the ‘rona.
When the casinos reopened with three aside I evolved to the pass line more and more.

Plus one month before the ‘rona hit, I had my fateful 3 hour meeting with Coaster, which lead to transitioning his Word files into Excel then deep diving into all the transpositions. That’s given me more freedom and confidence to switch sets in mid hand so my approach has evolved for when I shot. Of course if it’s an unknown table then my first play is normally a DP and the ATS.

I still predominantly Darkside every other shooter that I don’t know, and use a lot of OHCM variations if the table is trending warm, DN8R
Thanks for the explanation/answer. I always assumed a lot of dark siders play DP/DC/Lay on other shooters, but play the pass line when they are shooting. Either that, or these dark siders pass the dice and don't particularly like shooting. I guess if you develop a very good controlled toss aiming for sevens, you can shoot from the don'ts.

I am a bit of an armature dice setter/dice influencer. But I do regularly use a different set for the come out roll than I use for subsequent rolls. I usually do a two-v or three-v set for the come out, and then use a hardway set with fives or fours facing upward for subsequent rolls. Sometimes I do find myself in a dilemma though: If I am shooting, and I have unresolved come bets, what should I be setting for on the comeout? I guess I should just use my hardway set in that case?

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Re: DARKSIDE POP QUIZ

Post by DarthNater » Wed Jul 14, 2021 4:51 pm

mainframe wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:21 am

Thanks for the explanation/answer. I always assumed a lot of dark siders play DP/DC/Lay on other shooters, but play the pass line when they are shooting. Either that, or these dark siders pass the dice and don't particularly like shooting. I guess if you develop a very good controlled toss aiming for sevens, you can shoot from the don'ts.

I am a bit of an armature dice setter/dice influencer. But I do regularly use a different set for the come out roll than I use for subsequent rolls. I usually do a two-v or three-v set for the come out, and then use a hardway set with fives or fours facing upward for subsequent rolls. Sometimes I do find myself in a dilemma though: If I am shooting, and I have unresolved come bets, what should I be setting for on the comeout? I guess I should just use my hardway set in that case?
To add to my original answer, if its a table I'm familiar with, then I'm likely on the PL as betting a DP and sevening out quickly means I'm passing the dice and I like my chances on the ATS too much to do that. Its just better mental ROI on all my practicing and analyzing. Plus, a few days ago, I had a 26 roll hand and another player at the table asked me about what I was doing with the setting and "tossing thing" and after I explained it all to him, he signed up for a class.

Normally I use 1-2 come bets as I like the hedge and the Heavy Heatseeker method. As for come-outs and standing come bets, I'm usually using an X6 trying to snag a horn off the ATS. I suggest not using a hardway set - too many sevens on axis, better to use a set that could hit that unresolved come bet as then you get a win, and have a point with the same number that you've already hit twice. I would then not bet another come, either rack the win, place the sister, or bump up the odds, DN8R
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Re: DARKSIDE POP QUIZ

Post by mainframe » Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:53 pm

Nate: thanks for all the advice. Where can I find on the forum a list of dice sets or abbreviations so i don’t have to bother you with questions like “what is the X6 set and what is it good for?”

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Re: DARKSIDE POP QUIZ

Post by DarthNater » Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:48 pm

mainframe wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:53 pm
Nate: thanks for all the advice. Where can I find on the forum a list of dice sets or abbreviations so i don’t have to bother you with questions like “what is the X6 set and what is it good for?”
Main,
Go back to Heavy's homepage and click on dice setting. There you'll find a ton of info as well as the six standard reference sets, cheers, N8
Your lack of faith in The Force disturbs me, Commander.......

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Re: DARKSIDE POP QUIZ

Post by mainframe » Thu Jul 15, 2021 9:59 am

DarthNater wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:48 pm
mainframe wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:53 pm
Nate: thanks for all the advice. Where can I find on the forum a list of dice sets or abbreviations so i don’t have to bother you with questions like “what is the X6 set and what is it good for?”
Main,
Go back to Heavy's homepage and click on dice setting. There you'll find a ton of info as well as the six standard reference sets, cheers, N8
I found the article in question, thank you again.

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Re: DARKSIDE POP QUIZ

Post by MrLucky » Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:48 pm

DarthNater wrote:
Sat Jul 03, 2021 10:46 pm
Two nights ago at a locals-centric 14 footer well off strip, I encountered the following... three guys shooting from SOR on the DP; two were betting $10 flats with single odds, while the guy in the middle was betting $25 flats and laying a good sized stack of reds and greens. Alcohol did not appear to be a factor; all three were betting HiLos on the comeout, and were cheerfully shouting “we’re no good” with joy to any one who approached the table. One guy stood at SR1 and watched a PSO and ran away as they begged him to comeback.

I bought in at SOR, and bet the DP.

What would you do?
For me this is a gift from above. I shoot from the don'ts 75% of the time. I would cheerfully flat bet and a reverse 2 dc Molly as well with double odds.

A table full of cheerful don't players does happen as often as the cicadia come around.

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Re: DARKSIDE POP QUIZ

Post by DarthNater » Tue Aug 24, 2021 12:06 am

MrLucky wrote:
Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:48 pm

A table full of cheerful don't players does happen as often as the cicadia come around.
LOL almost As loud as the cicadas, DN8R
Your lack of faith in The Force disturbs me, Commander.......

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