Heavy's Axis Power Craps Forum

This'll prolly be long; I apologize. I don't know how to organize my thoughts so that my confusion is coherent...

I recently converted to playing solely at HR for it's better tables; I took an outing to Treasure Bay with a couple "DIs" and found that it's almost as solid as HR but with a $5 minimum (and no crowds). After my exposure to TB, I came home and practiced a different toss to try to mimic the TB table results (TB seems even more "dead cat bounce" than HR).

This "new" target-zone landing area (about 2 feet from the wall) has resulted in a BT of 6.63 SSR, but a Chi-Sq'd number of .0107. If I chose a different Transpose72 dice set, the SSR is 7.83. The dice set I'm using is 62/54. It was recommended by BT and favors Trash and Outside numbers--and consequently, I bet Across (and PL w/ $25/30 Odds) with a Field bet after 3 payoffs. I've been pretty successful with this scheme--tossing the BT dice set and using an "Outside" betting strategy (that sounds like it's almost geared for Crapless [which I've never played]). The new landing zone has worked at HR, too.

I've managed to survive at the table until I've rolled one of these long hands (usually cashing out for about a 60% profit or better). But I've won these sessions with no attention to a specific number--I just try to keep the dice on axis so's the H4/10 will come up (and my HW bets pay off), but other than that, my dice set knowledge isn't focussed on sniping (hitting a specific point)... AND BTracker data seems to show that I toss ODOA at best about 24-25% of the time.

Should I change my focus from "long rolls" to point shooting? As I understand it, some of this is "personality"--but I'm not spread Across looking for action--I do it because my "dice control" is that I hit more Outside than Inside numbers without a prepoderance of Primary Face hits. I'm willing to change my game to be a point shooter IF I can find dice sets to snipe numbers. (I DO seem to get enough routine H4/10s with my Off-Axis set up of 62/54 to make the HW worthwhile.)

I know that the Coaster Chart should help me; the usual crossed-6s and V2s and V3s dice sets don't seem to give me a preponderance of desired point numbers; I'm all over on axis, but not with what I'd consider truly favorably Primary Face hits (my best BT books record a PF rate of about 15.3%--not enough for me to bet the HW4/10 if I were to start with any rotated variation of the 55/xx dice set--). Sooooo... maybe I should scour the Coaster Chart for ODOA 6/8, 5/9 and 4/10 point settings? If so, how should I compare my BT Coaster Chart ODOA projections with an actual successful Point Shooter's stats?

And do actual Point Shooters bet Inside or Across in order to cover their "misses"? Or do they just bet "everything" they used to intend for Across/Inside bet, now only as the Free Odds wager?

Thank you, Guys!

Personally, I will take a long hand, rich in box numbers, over a hand with multiple points made every single time. I'd be choosing sets that are not rich in trash numbers as my primary in point set.

While I think that the TB table may be one of the best tables in all of Biloxi, it does play short which can mess with your mechanics if you're not used to it. Play it a little further back than you would normally from either SR or SL. But since you're more comfortable at SO, the short table is definitely something you're going to have to be cognizant of and tread a little lightly until you adjust. Similarly, if you play at TB and then head back immediately over to HR, there will be another adjustment period to get dialed back in on their table length.

The other issues at TB are the low maximums (only $300!) and the lack of an auto buy on the 5 and 9. You can buy the 5 and 9 there, but you'll have to pay the vig up front. No thank you. The dealers there can tend to be a little on the slow aide and you need to watch your payouts to make sure they're accurate. But I do enjoy playing there if I need a break from HR and if I can get a spot on their table, which can be a challenge at times, as it is most certainly a locals place.

I'd really need to see you BT book to get a better feel for the reasoning behind the apparent disconnect between your max SRR (and seemingly fairly narrow spread) compared with your chi square score. How many tosses were in that book?

I will say that much of this comes down to whether or not you're playing a game within a game on the Come Out or not. If you are using the same set on the Come Out that you're using during the Point Cycle - then you're more likely to get those repeating points. If you're setting for the Sevens on the Come Out, which is what I suggest people do when they're not betting the ATS or other bonus-type bets that get knocked off by a Come Out Seven, then odd are you're more likely to set a Six or Eight as the point. In that case, don't sweat the point. Don't worry about bumping up a lot of odds. But if you're tossing your regular set that gives a lot of outside numbers and you set the Ten as the point - then personally - I'd be more likely to bet up the odds on the Ten than I would on the Six or Eight simply because I'd be more likely to throw them AND they pay me better.

As 220 mentioned, the low table max at TB limits you on what you can make there if you get hot on the Four or Ten. Then again, once you hit table max you can always start tossing out Come Bets and once they travel to the Four or Ten you can take significant odds there to get additional money on those numbers if you with. With THAT said, starting with a $5 bet on the Four and Ten sorely limits your upside potential on those numbers because you're odds are 9-5 until you buy it and even if you're buying it at $10 - you're paying a 10% commission because they don't keep .50 cent chips on the table. No point in buying it until you get $20 on it. That's why I always place the Four and Ten for $15. The first his pays $27 and I can then Buy it for $25 and pay the $1 juice and have a $1 profit and a FREE $25 bet up there working for me. Jackpot! From there it's no step for a stepper to get that bet up to $300 just by doubling up on every hit. 25-50-100-200-300. When you get $300 on it you'll have racked up $275 profit less commissions. Again. Jackpot! Next hit pays $600 and all you can do is sit there and collect $600 a hit every hit after that. I scored seven hits on a $300 maxed out Four on a cruise ship a couple of years back. They only offered double odds, so no point in making Come Bets or Put Bets. I just took the money and smiled.

Take those long hands and profit from them. Plan your Come Out game accordingly. That'd be my tip.

I would much rather have a long hand with losts of repeaters than a shorter hand with more points hit, but thats mainly due to what i feel is a betting weakness of mine that i cant seem to overcome. I have no problem pressing repeated numbers but i can never seem to make myself maximize money in odds.