Page 2 of 2
Re: Can You Debate Come Versus Place With Only Factual Statements?
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 8:54 am
by Big O
I didn't know anything about the game. I'd only played once prior to taking up DI
Took the words right out of my mouth. However i have only been playing 4 years and i dont have Irish"s math back ground. I never fathomed there was so much to learn about the game when i started and had no clue about anything except the toss aspect most of the first 6 months i played. Quoting a craps expert, ("we cant beat the game it is to strong"). This really sent me reeling when i heard it, but i have come to understand it and have more respect for the game.
How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time corny but accurate. I look at it like this we are like a small dog nipping at the heals of an Elephant. Trying to bite off little pieces at a time without getting squished. You just have to know you are going to get kicked occasionally.
Re: Can You Debate Come Versus Place With Only Factual Statements?
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 10:23 am
by 220Inside
Big O wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 8:54 am
How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time corny but accurate. I look at it like this we are like a small dog nipping at the heals of an Elephant. Trying to bite off little pieces at a time without getting squished. You just have to know you are going to get kicked occasionally.
You'll also get shit on by the elephant from time to time
Re: Can You Debate Come Versus Place With Only Factual Statements?
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:43 pm
by House of Orange
Well my point of view has always been to take advantage of the come out and produce a winning GWAG. Finding a set that produces more sevens and more yo's and less ace deuces is my goal. So I suppose using the 20% -ev. of the Firebet was a bad example, and the new lower payouts, again about 20% -ev. of the ATS is a better one.
Re: Can You Debate Come Versus Place With Only Factual Statements?
Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:26 pm
by hard6
Irish
I prefer to only place the 6/8 as the HA is so high for placing the 4/10 and 5/9 when starting out.
Is the HA on a $25 or $50 Buy on the 4 or 10 1.333....% ?
[((1/3)*49) + ((2/3)*(-25)]/25
= [(49/3) + (-50/3)] /25
= - (1/3)/25
= -1/75
You lose $1 for every $75 bet.
Have you run simulations on the odds profit/loss on the pass line and come bets?
Re: Can You Debate Come Versus Place With Only Factual Statements?
Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 11:47 am
by hard6
Irish
You might be doing your calculation when you only pay the vig on a win. I've never played in a house like that.
I play in lots of casinos here in Las Vegas that only collect the vig on a win,
The MP's $204 across strategy shows "$25 each on the Buy-4 and Buy-10......$35 each on the Place-5 and Place-9......$42 each on the Place-6 and Place-8. Any one of those six box-number bets kicks off the same $49 payout."
The simulations I have run both place and come odds were near zero.
The $20 on 4 or 10 buy I lose $1 for every $60 I bet it calculates to 1/60 or 1.66..%
The $5 on 5 or 9 I lose $1 for every $25 I bet it calculates to 1/25 or 4.00%
The $6 on 6 or 8 I lose $1 for every $66 I bet it calculates to 1/66 or 1.5151..%
The $5 on 4 or 10 I lose $1 for every $15 I bet it calculates to 1/15 or 6.6666..%
If they let me buy the 4 or 10 for $30 for a $1 commission it would be 1/90 or 1.111%.
Re: Can You Debate Come Versus Place With Only Factual Statements?
Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:59 pm
by wild child
hard6 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 11:47 am
Irish
You might be doing your calculation when you only pay the vig on a win. I've never played in a house like that.
I play in lots of casinos here in Las Vegas that only collect the vig on a win,
The MP's $204 across strategy shows "$25 each on the Buy-4 and Buy-10......$35 each on the Place-5 and Place-9......$42 each on the Place-6 and Place-8. Any one of those six box-number bets kicks off the same $49 payout."
The simulations I have run both place and come odds were near zero.
The $20 on 4 or 10 buy I lose $1 for every $60 I bet it calculates to 1/60 or 1.66..%
The $5 on 5 or 9 I lose $1 for every $25 I bet it calculates to 1/25 or 4.00%
The $6 on 6 or 8 I lose $1 for every $66 I bet it calculates to 1/66 or 1.5151..%
The $5 on 4 or 10 I lose $1 for every $15 I bet it calculates to 1/15 or 6.6666..%
If they let me buy the 4 or 10 for $30 for a $1 commission it would be 1/90 or 1.111%.
Many Mississippi Gulf Coast joints allow BUY Box#4 & Buy Box$ 10 @ $35 for only $1.00
and
frequently when THE GOOD CREWs are on duty
so will the Native American /Tribal establishments.
In my experience, it is still BETTER TO ASK prior to making THE BUY
w c
Re: Can You Debate Come Versus Place With Only Factual Statements?
Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 7:32 pm
by hard6
wc
Do they only collect the vig on a win?
The Santa Ana casino in New Mexico didn't collect any vig on the 4 or 10 the last time I played there about 5 years ago.
Re: Can You Debate Come Versus Place With Only Factual Statements?
Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 11:45 pm
by 220Inside
Yes, vig collected on the back end in MS. They have the best craps games there.