Heavy's Axis Power Craps Forum

Okay, let's talk about shooting from the Don'ts a little bit. Back around 2005 we had a competition in Vegas to see which shooter in the seminar could make the most money in the casino over the course of the weekend. The winner? Our lone Don't player. Every morning he would go to one of the downtown casinos that rarely had any players at the table. He's set a point, then set for the seven and seven out - winning his Don't bet. Then, since there was no one else at the table with him, he'd get the dice right back and do it again. And again. And again. You get the idea. Sooooo, multi-part question. WOULD you consider shooting from the Don'ts as a dice influencer? If so, what set would you use on the Come Out and why? What set would you use to seven out and why? What would be your betting strategy on other players at the table - if any? Put on your thinking caps. Time for some good answers.

Sure, I would consider it.

Come out, I'd probably use an X6 set to try and snipe some 2, 3 winners. Or perhaps a 2V set to try and set an outside number as my point.

In point, I'd switch to either an all 7's set or Parallel 6's to maximize the number of on axis 7 out possibilities.

On other shooters, I'd probably stick with a dark side play, perhaps OCHM.

Good question. If one can influence the dice on the right side, why would you darkside? The payoffs on the don't side are either flat to the money or if you lay odds, you get the reverse as in no 10 for $51 gets you $25. On the other hand, you can get your profits real fast if you can bring out a seven confidentally. Lay that no 10 for $510 and get a fast $250 with no worries about leaving a ton on the table as many right side players do. I guess if you were setting for the dark side, you'd want a CO 10 or 4 which could be a V2 set or a variation thereof because those number are the hardest to hit while you are trying for that seven with the all sevens sets. Also you could throw in a 4 and 10 hdway as a little hedge. For other shooters, I chart from the walk-in. You have to really careful with random shooters. Sometimes they throw killer hands on a don't player. I'll watch for a while after a buy in. How bouncy is the table? How many rolls are we getting before 7? Where are we on the bell curve?

thnick wrote: ↑Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:08 am Good question. If one can influence the dice on the right side, why would you darkside? The payoffs on the don't side are either flat to the money or if you lay odds, you get the reverse as in no 10 for $51 gets you $25. On the other hand, you can get your profits real fast if you can bring out a seven confidentally. Lay that no 10 for $510 and get a fast $250 with no worries about leaving a ton on the table as many right side players do. I guess if you were setting for the dark side, you'd want a CO 10 or 4 which could be a V2 set or a variation thereof because those number are the hardest to hit while you are trying for that seven with the all sevens sets. Also you could throw in a 4 and 10 hdway as a little hedge. For other shooters, I chart from the walk-in. You have to really careful with random shooters. Sometimes they throw killer hands on a don't player. I'll watch for a while after a buy in. How bouncy is the table? How many rolls are we getting before 7? Where are we on the bell curve?

Excellent response thnick! My thoughts exactly.

Wherever a person's advantage is at, is what they should be shooting for the maximum profit...

Shooting from the don't on an empty table can be very profitable.

I shoot on the dark side mostly. Usually with empty or near empty table. Bores the crap out of the dealers, but I’m there to enjoy myself not keep them happy. And I enjoy it when I win. But you have to read the session. If you are setting for sevens and can’t hit it. Make sure to cover the place numbers. OHCM is a beautiful thing for transition play.

Yes. Pulling those don't bets and changing them to place bets sometimes gets the dealer reaction.."Are you nuts? You have the best bets in the house." Not if you are starting to throw them numbers.

I've thought about it. When I am the shooter I'd use a traditional dice set to start. Maybe make a DP and then DC's by hitting 3 separate box numbers to set them up, Set for sevens and collect my winnings. That is with the caveat that all things go to plan.

I'd use the dice set with the lowest SRR in my BoneTracker stats for my sevens set.

Bankerdude80 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:48 pm
I'd use the dice set with the lowest SRR in my BoneTracker stats for my sevens set.

Exactly!! People trying to seven out using the all 7’s set is a hilarious sight. They roll forever!

Heck yes, especially if I'm not at my prime spot by the stick.

I'll do GWTG with the World Bet; and see if I can bring the aces. I use a crossed sixes mutant. It usually brings an outside number if I don't get a horn. At this point I go to an all sevens mutant and place the 6 & 8. The all sevens can really bring a lot of 6s and 8s. If it does, then I place the point on the line next to the DP. Some days the seven just gets lost with that all sevens mutant. So grab the cash, D.N8r

I enjoy playing that way on an empty table.

I'd use the same set 3's on top 5's facing for the comeout. If I was tossing well I'd use the same set with a slightly offset grip to get more skin on the left die after the point was set.

If I wasn't tossing well I'd just pluck em and chuckem after the point was set.

Empty table, that’s the rub. Tough in Biloxi. Although if you’re successful, you will send some to an early shower. One thing you will not do is increase the chip count with those hanging on in hopes of a savior!

For me, the V-3 throws more sevens than any other set. V-2 on CO then the V-3. Oh, yea, Heavy gets irritated at me when I do not tell him that I am shooting to seven out.

Nov 30th 2018


Playing the Don’ts

That’s what I do. I am always trying to find an empty or nearly empty table to play on. Just like that lonely guy, I want the dice as much as possible.

My spot at the table is SL1. I have tossed from that spot so many times that I have built in muscle memory. As far as the sets that I use, I have to thank Americraps for that one. I don’t know how many years we have been practicing on his table. He tracks me on Bonetracker. Over the years we have gone through the books and found that my best come-out set is a variation of the V3 set (5-2/ 6-1 on the sides and 6-4 on top with 3-2 facing me.) I get more 4’s, 6’s and 9’s. When I set a point of 4, 6 or 9, I will turn the left die a half a turn so it is (2-5/6-1 on the sides with 6-4 on top and 4-2 facing me) I get more 5,’s 8’s and 10’s and wait to seven out.

If the point becomes a 5, 8, or 10, I will keep my dice set to (5-2/6-1 on the sides and 6-4 on top with 3-2 facing me.)

My casino used to have the “Craps for Cash” but the new owners put a stop to that. It was a free promotion for the shooter only. You make all 6 numbers and they gave you $2,500. It used to be $4,000 but they got cheap and lowered it to $2,500. Now they took it away all together.

Yes I knocked myself off and made the point but I didn’t mind. I would just replace my minimum $10 Don’t Pass bet and keep shooting. Once I had 3 different points covered, I would turn my left die back and go for all the numbers in order to make all 6 numbers and win the “Craps for Cash” I was willing to risk losing $60 on the Don’t Pass in order to win the $2,500. It all paid off last year when I won the Craps for Cash 4x’s. I used some of it for a trip to Caesars Windsor casino in Canada with Americraps. When I came back I got a new Chevy Malibu. I love photography so I got the camera I always wanted. I spent all that so the casino wouldn’t get their money back.

I don’t like betting on other players but when I have to I will wait 8 rolls and then put $10 in the Don’t Come. I will either do 1 or 2 loses per shooter and wait for the next guy. Most of the guys are regulars and after a while I got to know who will probably knock me off my Don’t Bets so I stay away from them. I hate crowded tables.


$5Bill

Take what the table is giving you, if the 7 is in a contracted sequence....meaning it is appearing more than once every six rolls BET THE DON'T. One time we went around the table 18 times before we were picked off on the pass line setting the sevens after a come out roll. The best thing is, you never leave any money on the table at the end of a roll. The don't is 67% of the game you can't leave it out of your betting strategy if you want to be a consistent winner.

I'm with six shooter on this one. Charting for 7's coming closer. Track rolls from shooters should look like this /. If a line down your tracked rolls starts to look like this \..reverse course.

I can't track my own rolls, as I find it too distracting and my results suffer as a result, but tracking other players rolls is something I should start considering.

If your results are suffering....I take it as you are throwing to many sevens...shoot from the don't and track. You can cure a problem and win at the same time.

I guess that's one way of looking at it.

If I shot from the Don't last weekend I would be rich.