Heavy's Axis Power Craps Forum

When you say 94K rolls, are we talking about the 300 hour zumma book?

Yo... Bob/Tree

Only 35,000 were from Zumma's Craps System Testing Book. The rest are from several older books I

picked up from the Gamblers Book Store when it was on 11th Street in North Vegas.

My fav. book has 1,000's of real,recorded rolls from 12 heavyweigh, Vegas Casino's ...from The Hilton

to C. Palace on the strip.

I used to think dice setting was the way to go.....but... I do not see, in the real World,

craps players making any real $$$$ setting the dice ?????

What is up with that ?

The Casino's are not stupid, they do not see dice setting as harming their bottom line.

If dice setting was so hot....the Casino's would just..... ban it ....U - Think ?

I have found just flinging the dice to the end of the table & using the two 4/10 Lay Betting Systems

to exploit the 66.66 % built-in 4/10 lay-betting player bias...... works for me !!!!!

When I made +$2,400.00 on my last trip to Lake Tahoe, in 65 minutes flat ...using only

the 4/10 System ...without Hank's System added.... I would just grab two of the dice from the dice

bowl and like a lump of hot coal, fly them from the bowl to the other end of the table, before the crew

could even pull-back the dice bowl ....works great as a true RNG for use on the

4/10 & Hank's Systems !

Wolfbyte#2

I do not see, in the real World, craps players making any real $$$$ setting the dice ????? What is up with that ?

I know several who are making six figures at craps via dice control. The fact that you do not see them is pretty much irrelevant. You're just looking in the wrong places or are in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Heavy...

Yep....thinking back, I have seen a crew take $160,000.00 off a craps table, in short order.

However, most all dice players lose $$$$ at craps.

MP says he thinks over 99% lose at craps, in the log run.

Thoughts ?

Wolfbyte#2

MP and others talk about how established dice setters get a high minimum table rolling then bounce out when it fills with randies. Its a symbiotic relationship. The DI makes $5k, indirectly brings the randies to the honey pot, and then leaves. The honey is no longer in the pot and the casino closes the lid on the randies who give away more $ at the higher dollar table. Savvy casino's like having $5k taken from them if they stand to rake $6k+ right after because the table "got hot". They know the dice's "memory of hotness" left with the DI.

If I were to pick a number I'd guess that around 85% of craps players consistently lose more than they win, and around 15% are winners. Of that 15% - probably 12% are grinders who focus mostly on the Don'ts or right side regression play with very small win goals. The remaining 3% would be the guys who are winning enough that it impacts their bottom line, and probably no more than 1% have what it takes to play professionally. Just my thinking.

Regarding people doubting Dice Setting...

From my 13 years of playing Craps....(No disrespect to anyone but I'm only going to count people I've physically seen playing Craps at the table); I have seen Less than 5 TRUE PROFESSIONAL DI's in the Casinos and they all played SOLO.

Their Dice Tossing skills were IMMACULATE...

I've played with a few of them in the Midwest several times over the past few years...one in particular is very PROFESSIONAL, he is humble, very low-key, in and out of the Casino everyday mostly within ONE hour. His objective is to make the 5 or 6 Point Firebet as soon as possible and get the hell out of the Casino. His greatest feat that I personally saw was him making the 5 Point Firebet in 10 tosses... For those that need further clarification...he established 5 different points and hit them on the very first roll each time (TEN CONSECUTIVE PERFECT AXIS SHOTS).

The BEST DI that I ever saw is the guy I played right next to last summer who I dubbed "GREATEST CRAPS SHOOTER EVER" after 2 rolls (I told my wife who was standing nearby after his second toss...this guy is the greatest shooter ever!!!) BEFORE he proceeded to complete SIXTEEN CONSECUTIVE PERFECT AXIS SHOTS on his way to making 10 points (8 Hardways) and running his $1,000 Buy-In to $20,000+

I learned from him and verified from a couple of people I personally know who played with him that he was advised not to return to a couple of Casinos in the East Coast after taking them for $30,000+, $40,000+ and $55,000+ from $1,000 Buy-Ins and being too boisterous about it to the Suits. I only had the privilege of playing with him ONCE and I will forever be mystified by his spectacular tossing.

Dice Setting Works....very few have the TALENT, CONFIDENCE and BALLS to make RIDICULOUS sums of money from relatively small buy-ins consistently.

Just remember, fat hogs get slaughtered.

ACPA, All..........

Using your roll numbers we used to back-test, using the 77 Craps System, on the 4/10 Craps System

has produced great results !!!!

ACPA's Oct. 2, 2011 posted roll numbers =

3,1.. We lay bet the 10 for + $400.00...

Six rolls later = 6,1 = ...+ $200.00 net !
==============================
Two rolls later = 3,1 So we lay-bet the 10 for + $400.00 .......

Again, 6 rolls later = 4,3 = +$200.00 net !
===============================
One roll later = 6,4 ...we lay bet the 4 for + $400.00.....

Again, six rolls later, the same outcome = 4,3 = + $200.00 net ...Nice !!
=================================
One roll later = 3,1 ...We lay bet the 10 for + $400.00 .......

Two rolls later = 5,2 = another ....+ $ 200.00 net

So....your rolls are made for use on the 4/10 Craps System with Hank's 4/10 System mixed into

the 4/10 Lay Betting System !!!!

I ran...' all'... your posted numbers and they all turned a nice profit ! = +$200.00, + $200.00 & +$200.00...over

and over they blew-off ... + $200.00's profits !

Thoughts ?

Wolfbyte#2

Now here's an interesting old thread on testing a betting strategy and what sort of rolls to use (your own, 48 hours in the casino book, RNG). Thoughts?

Is that the Midgley book? Can't remember exactly.

For the life of me, as I read through this thread, I do not see the explanations of these "systems" mentioned. Hanks, 4/10, Ricochet, 77, etc.. Seems someone asked and asked and I never saw an appropriate reply that defined the rules/steps for these "systems" used.

Are they proprietary or pay systems?

Otherwise, this thread doesn't seem to make much sense to those of us in the dark...

The ricochet is a John Patrick system of don't play. Summary:
Shooter comes out with a point. You lay against the shooter's point and make a DC bet. If yr
DC bet moves to a number,take down your lay bet.You now have a don't number. It's a hedge system. Your lay bet is protection against the 7. Not a bad to play because you end up with the odds in your favor with that DC bet. Best is to get Patrick's book on craps. It's full of good stuff.

In my experience the ricochet works best when there are icicles hanging from the table. It is death on a warm to hot table streak. If a 6 or 8 comes out, I never use it. I don't like idea, also of immediately laying against a come out number. How many bullfrogs does it take to screw up your major plan to take home some bucks?

Thanks thnick and scout!

The best advice I ever had is: before you raise your bet on someone, have them earn it. It goes the same for yourself.

What ever the plan you have, make sure you have a dialed in shooter according to the plan you want to use, or you’re just gambling.

I think you should be working a toss from almost every positions. There are so many tricks in the box, you can manage to find a way to toss decent hands from anywhere.

If you make a good toss but the results are off, moving might improve. Last week I was SL 1.5 and was doing 10 roll under hands, SR freed up, I moved and made a 30 roll ats winner. You need to be comfortable at more then one spot. SO can be killer when you dial in. I’ve made 40+ roll hands back to back... you should move when you dial but shoot off, sometimes it’s not much that can change the whole picture.

I’ve been sl1 doing crap and pushed by crew to sl3 for a disabilited senior to sit. I’ve then worked hands 20-30 rolls from there. Hell I made great hands in hook to hook also. When one thing won’t work. Analyse what’s wrong and use it to your advantage. Change set, heigth, strength, roll, landing zone. Mix of it, but don’t keep things going wrong!

I've found this to be true as well. Changing positions, even +/-1/2 a spot on your current position can make all the difference in the world.

Yep. It's amazing. As to tell if a DI is on or off..that's a tough one. V3 set you could look for 11 or 3..but that could just be a couple rolls. Also is he/she hitting the same spot..you know all the signs. But sometimes you get a long roll anyway. Either way if you use regression, you have two plusses in your corner. One is that you are a little ahead or about even and you are ready for a long roll to happen and you'll be in on it. If it doesn't happen..you have the money to go for the next one.