Hedging and Getting Past the Come Out Roll on the Don't Pass

[joe57777]

I was wondering if anyone cared to share how to get by safely past the come-out roll and still have my 12, 18, 20, or higher bet amount still standing harmlessly after that first roll is over without sacrificing any money? Or maybe it can be done with betting a very small amount that can be won back after the next roll, two, or three or so down the line?

Any ideas on this or any other hedge betting tips that anybody has learned that they care to share? You can send me a pm if you do not feel comfortable displaying this to all members of the group here that would read this.

Thanks in advance!!!!!

[Americraps]

This really doesn't answer your question, but I once played with a guy that had $61 IC bet ($18 on 6 &8 $15 on the 5 and $10 on the field= Iron Cross/ IC), along with $50 layed against the 4 and 10. His mission was to make something on every roll. When a four or ten knocked off his lay, he would increase the lay on both numbers to cover the loss. That way, when the 7 eventually came, he would cover his lay bet losses and his iron cross action. In the meantime he was collecting on every roll. This guy was sweating pretty good on a hand that included multiple 4s and 10s, as his lay bets were pressed pretty high. He had a red face, and a wad of hundreds in his hand ready to press the lay one more time when the seven finally showed. That turned into a big smile, and he beat it as fast as he could off the table with a decent profit. I have wargamed this in practice and found it to be absolutely suicidal.

[tconley]

I was wondering if anyone cared to share how to get by safely past the come-out roll and still have my 12, 18, 20, or higher bet amount still standing harmlessly after that first roll is over without sacrificing any money? Or maybe it can be done with betting a very small amount that can be won back after the next roll, two, or three or so down the line?

Any ideas on this or any other hedge betting tips that anybody has learned that they care to share? You can send me a pm if you do not feel comfortable displaying this to all members of the group here that would read this.

Thanks in advance!!!!!

If you want to play only the dp, I would suggest a $5 or $10 bet. If the point is 6 or 8, you can hedge by placing the point for $6 or $12. If your dp bet wins 2 times, you can up your bet by 1 unit. Any loss, back to the minimum bet. 3 losses in a row - sayonara!

If you want to play the dc, you can try the "Patrick" method. Equal pass/don't pass bets(replace as needed). Once the point is established, lay single odds and make a dc bet (you have the option of a $1 yo to hedge the dc from the 11)(the odds bet hedges the dc against the 7). Once the dc travels to a number, take you odds bet down, and make your dc the main bet. The pass/don't pass becomes a wash.

[joe57777]

To Americraps,

Thanks for the story it was very interesting. I guess that strategy would not be very good for the average person's blood pressure!!!!! Unfortunately, I hear way too many stories like this that do not have happy endings. There are however, articles that do come close to solving the crap hedging game. It would be very refreshing to hear a real live story that had a "happy ending" where some lucky person after a nice hedge betting session, "went in", "got up", and "got gone"!!!!!

Any real true hedging success stories out there that anyone cares to share?????

[wudged]

I once tried the same "fail safe" plan Americraps described. It was not pretty, and also pissed the dealers off to the point they started audibly hoping I would roll a 7. If the dwindling supply of chips in your rack isn't a sign, you know it's time to leave when that happens.

Anyway, to answer your question, some people like to hop the 7s and / or 11 for a buck each, but when you only have $5 on the don't to begin with, why waste half your potential earning on that?

The only "certain" hedge is making it past the first roll on a don't, then placing the number. Unless you're betting some pretty heavy amounts with the right side hitting more frequently than not, it's pretty much just a comp generator - don't expect to go anywhere with it.

[joe57777]

Ok I will start. Can someone please answer my question. Is it better to hedge a $25 Don't pass bet or a $25 Come bet? I can see both sides. In my opinion and from what I have seen over the last month or so in my live casinos here, there is a greater chance that a 7 or 11 will be rolled more frequently on opening come-out rolls especially because there are many shooters that practice shooting for them. But there is a relatively inexpensive hedge in the form of a 7 hop and a Yo 11 bet that will still take $7 away from your profits if it doesn't hit but at the same time it will hedge your bet and actually make you a small profit if the 7 or 11 hits on the come-out roll. As for the DC argument. Some bettors like to use a hedge by buying or laying the 4 or 10. These numbers are less likely to come up as it is but I hear that some people wait until one of these numbers is rolled and buys or lays that number for $50 (+com) because they feel it is not likely that either the 4 or 10 will repeat enough so to bet on it. This hedge if successful will only cost you maybe $1 or so and you can pick it up after that roll.

Another note: because of the hedge cost of $7 for the DP version would you just go ahead and make your DP bet $30 instead of $25? and the DC version $26 or $27? If so why or why not?

Comments?, Thoughts?, other Ideas?

[heavy]

The old "standard" is to lay $41 no four or no ten to hedge $20 or so in bets. If hedging just the DP itself I prefer to go bare on an initial wager of one unit more than table minimum - example - $10 on a $5 game - then follow that bet by a table minimum ($5) DC wager. The problem with hedge betting is that if you are not careful you'll end up hedging your hedges. For example, betting a $41 no four combined with a $6 hard four. The shooter tosses and easy four and you're out $47.

[joe57777]

Well however I get there to $25 on the don't. Because then you can place the point in a "can't lose situation and $25 is enough to be worth doing that with. I am not sure $10 is enough? Maybe the DP with betting on the 7 and the Yo 11 is the way to achieve this then? You just have to make sure when the "smoke clears" that you have enough profit to overcome the amount you spend on the come-out rolls trying to hedge your $25 DP bets.

[wudged]

Hedging does not work. If it did, craps (at least as it is currently played) would not exist.

[heavy]

You might consider something like SIA's "one hit - can't miss" strategy if you want to combine a Don't play with placing numbers. On a low level you'd play $12 on the Don't Pass. Once the point is established play $12 each on the six and eight. If the seven shows right away you'd lose $12. But if you get one hit on the six or eight you can't lose - you'll have a $2 profit for the first hit, and profit increases by $14 on each subsequent hit.

If you prefer to have no risk after the point is established you could play a $6 six and eight, however it will take two hits on the six or eight to guarantee a win.

If the point is an even number you can always toss out a $1 hardway bet for a partial hedge.

If you are concerned about exposure to the seven on the come out you can always lay against a number. If the four or ten are too expensive for you at $41 you can always lay the 5 or 9 for $31 or the six or eight for $25.

[joe57777]

How about splitting the difference one lay and a partial bet on the seven? Also you cannot forget the $2 Yo that completes the insurance policy on the come-out roll.

[Iceman95]

I recently started doing a hedge betting after a friend mention this to me. A group of guys he knows would do a $500 dp and then would make place bets up to $500 across. He did not say how long they keep the bets working, press any or take them down. He did mention that they try to make $2000-$2500 a week. He also told me that once in a while they did take a beating. Within the last week I started doing this. I would do a $50 dp and place a $24 6/8. I usually wait for three hits on the 6/8 before I start to press. After 4 hits I will take the 6/8 down. If I did not get a 6/8 after 3 rolls I will take them down. I may pick up the dp depending on how the shooter is rolling. If the shooter is a DI I won t do this system. The tables that I try this were very choppy. For the week I m up $143, like Heavy says....get in, get up and get out.

[VegasDiceController]

I recently started doing a hedge betting after a friend mention this to me. A group of guys he knows would do a $500 dp and then would make place bets up to $500 across. He did not say how long they keep the bets working, press any or take them down. He did mention that they try to make $2000-$2500 a week. He also told me that once in a while they did take a beating. Within the last week I started doing this. I would do a $50 dp and place a $24 6/8. I usually wait for three hits on the 6/8 before I start to press. After 4 hits I will take the 6/8 down. If I did not get a 6/8 after 3 rolls I will take them down. I may pick up the dp depending on how the shooter is rolling. If the shooter is a DI I won t do this system. The tables that I try this were very choppy. For the week I m up $143, like Heavy says....get in, get up and get out.

Ice... Can do NOT EVER take down a DP bet... 1) you made a sacrifice to leave it and get by 8 dice combinations to survive a DP loss, 2) Why in the hell would you give up a free $3, a free $10 and a free $24??? If 6 or 8 is point PB the point for $24, if point hits you collect 28 on the PB and lose $25 Dp for a Net of $3... on a 5/9 you would Net $10 if point is made and a 4/10 $24... So dont throw money away...

VDC

[VegasDiceController]

I was wondering if anyone cared to share how to get by safely past the come-out roll and still have my 12, 18, 20, or higher bet amount still standing harmlessly after that first roll is over without sacrificing any money? Or maybe it can be done with betting a very small amount that can be won back after the next roll, two, or three or so down the line?

Any ideas on this or any other hedge betting tips that anybody has learned that they care to share? You can send me a pm if you do not feel comfortable displaying this to all members of the group here that would read this.

Thanks in advance!!!!!

Im gonna give you something but Promise me you will buy 72 hrs at craps table and test it or use another System tester or Live rolls...

Buy in for 30 units.. example is going to be $25 units.. Buy in $750/ Bankroll needed $3000 play at bigger odds casino (10 x or greater), but 3/4/5 works fine... but for example we will use

Make $5 Pass / $5 Dont pass... )1 in 36 rolls a 12 will be rolled) and you will lose $5.

Once point established 6/8 lay $30 ...5/9 lay $45 ..4/10 lay $50
If you win this bet, remain at $25 Win. If you Lose this bet to a shooter making a point go toa double bet.
lets assume point was an 8 and shooter made point.
Next bet same shooter... make a $5 PL and $5 DP bet
point is a 9. Lay $75 to make $50. If bet Wins to a 7out, resume back to $25 WIn on next shooter... If bet loses, that means this shooter has made 2 consecutive point winners... take you 3 unit loss like a man and sit back and wait a few minute for his roll to end then resume back at starting level of $25, on next shooter...

Thats basically it... You can earn $200-$500 a day doing this strategy. Some will say to just wait for point and lay it.. thats a horrible idea as they house VIG will eat you alive and if you play 100 decisions, you saved $100-150 by doing this strategy.... in a 100 rolls you might hit three 12's and lose $15, compared to 100... Dont buy into hype of lay bets in this instance...

If you play at 3/4/5 you might have to bump P/Dp to $10 each on a lay of $100/75/60 if you lose 1st bet...depending on point...

You could use the 2 loss rule as a trigger to make do side bets... come back with $42 inside and go from there and collect /press, if you hit a decent roll you could recoup you 3 unit loss in no time...

I can tell you I ran this vs 72 hrs at craps table and it Killed the tester book....

hope this Helps

VDC

[joe57777]

Not to get off topic but did anybody ever try that "Super Craps" system. They say its free but they end up charging for it I forgot how much. I know systems do not work and they are ALL scams, but I watched a demo on this system on Youtube and it made a lot of sense. Any comments?

[joe57777]

I understand about the snake oil people. But I am just asking if someone looked at the video on youtube that showed an interesting strategy from this Super craps guy? That strategy was demonstrated free there. If so what did anyone think about it?

[Layman]

Well this is my first post and I have been playing and practicing my throw for about 8 months. I am usually a right bettor. Whatever bet I place I match an equal betting unit in the Field to cover all of the craps and also make money when any other field numbers are the point as well as double/triple on dueces & boxcars. I will also sometimes put half of a betting unit on Big Red, but these bets I only utilize on the come out. I believe it to be a great hedge and even better when the Yo hits.

Layman

[heavy]

Down here we call that $5 in the Field to cover your PL or Come bet a "Mississippi Craps Check." I kind of like that idea myself. especially if I have the 5, 6, 8 covered. Not keen on the Big Red. Toss out $3 hopping sevens if they'll book it. Much better (but still bad) bet.

BTW, welcome to the board. Good to see a new face AND to see you jump in and start posting immediately.

[Golfer]

Getting up on a $25 DC bet can be hedged. Hedging dilutes return so do so cautiously. Take what the table is giving. If 11's are showing on the comeouts, hedge with a $2 YO. If 7's are showing on the comeouts, hedge with a lay bet sized to cover the DP. Here again, take what the table is giving. If points are mostly outside numbers, lay $30 or $36 on the 6 or 8. If inside points are being established, lay the 4 or 10. Once point is established TAKE YOUR LAY BET DOWN.

The darkside is a tool in your craps toolbox. It is not the only tool. Pay attention. If a table is dumping cash play the rightside or play the slots.........you will get run over. If every shooter is going PSO you better up your DP and load up on odds. If there is a vicious chop....walk away, change tables, play another game or leave the casino. Your cash will most likely not last longer than the trend. Or you can take up golf.

Enjoy.


Golfer

[joe57777]

Is this a good option? Wait for one 7 to be thrown on a come out roll. Then put 12 on the DP. If a 2 or 3 rolls you win $12. If a point number is thrown and it is a 4 or 10 place it for $10. If the 7 or the point rolls you win $2 risking only $12 on the come out 7 or 11. If the 6 or the 8 is the point then you place the 6 or the 8 for $12. If the 7 rolls you break even and if the point rolls you win $2. If the point is a 5 or 7 then you place it for $12. If a 7 or the point rolls you win $2.

Next is this what people do? You place $5 on the DP and $5 on the Pass with a $1 12. Then if the point is a 4, 5, 9, or 10 you lay $20 odds on the DP side and make a $5 DC bet. If the 7 rolls you lose the $5 DC bet but you win the $10 DP odds for a profit of $5. If the DC bet lands on a number other than the 6 or the 8 you then take the $20 DP odds bet down. If the $5 DC lands on the 6 or 8 then try again to get a non-6 or 8. Can anybody please help me improve either one of these strategies or is this the best I can do? I do not mind winning just $2 at a time in the case of the first example. I will stay at the casino for 8 hours if I have to in order to walk out of there with a nice profit.

Like Heavy Always Says: "Get in, Get up, and Get gone."