Can You Debate Come Versus Place With Only Factual Statements?

Setting and influencing the dice roll is just part of the picture. To beat the dice you have to know how to bet the dice. Whether you call it a "system," a "strategy," or just a way to play - this is the place to discuss it.

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Big O
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Re: Can You Debate Come Versus Place With Only Factual Statements?

Post by Big O » Thu Apr 09, 2020 8:54 am

I didn't know anything about the game. I'd only played once prior to taking up DI
Took the words right out of my mouth. However i have only been playing 4 years and i dont have Irish"s math back ground. I never fathomed there was so much to learn about the game when i started and had no clue about anything except the toss aspect most of the first 6 months i played. Quoting a craps expert, ("we cant beat the game it is to strong"). This really sent me reeling when i heard it, but i have come to understand it and have more respect for the game.

How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time corny but accurate. I look at it like this we are like a small dog nipping at the heals of an Elephant. Trying to bite off little pieces at a time without getting squished. You just have to know you are going to get kicked occasionally.
"if it was easy anyone could do it"

220Inside
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Location: Massachusetts

Re: Can You Debate Come Versus Place With Only Factual Statements?

Post by 220Inside » Thu Apr 09, 2020 10:23 am

Big O wrote: Thu Apr 09, 2020 8:54 am How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time corny but accurate. I look at it like this we are like a small dog nipping at the heals of an Elephant. Trying to bite off little pieces at a time without getting squished. You just have to know you are going to get kicked occasionally.
You'll also get shit on by the elephant from time to time :mrgreen:

House of Orange
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Re: Can You Debate Come Versus Place With Only Factual Statements?

Post by House of Orange » Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:43 pm

Well my point of view has always been to take advantage of the come out and produce a winning GWAG. Finding a set that produces more sevens and more yo's and less ace deuces is my goal. So I suppose using the 20% -ev. of the Firebet was a bad example, and the new lower payouts, again about 20% -ev. of the ATS is a better one.

hard6
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Re: Can You Debate Come Versus Place With Only Factual Statements?

Post by hard6 » Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:26 pm

Irish
I prefer to only place the 6/8 as the HA is so high for placing the 4/10 and 5/9 when starting out.
Is the HA on a $25 or $50 Buy on the 4 or 10 1.333....% ?

[((1/3)*49) + ((2/3)*(-25)]/25
= [(49/3) + (-50/3)] /25
= - (1/3)/25
= -1/75

You lose $1 for every $75 bet.

Have you run simulations on the odds profit/loss on the pass line and come bets?

hard6
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Re: Can You Debate Come Versus Place With Only Factual Statements?

Post by hard6 » Sat Apr 11, 2020 11:47 am

Irish
You might be doing your calculation when you only pay the vig on a win. I've never played in a house like that.
I play in lots of casinos here in Las Vegas that only collect the vig on a win,

The MP's $204 across strategy shows "$25 each on the Buy-4 and Buy-10......$35 each on the Place-5 and Place-9......$42 each on the Place-6 and Place-8. Any one of those six box-number bets kicks off the same $49 payout."

The simulations I have run both place and come odds were near zero.

The $20 on 4 or 10 buy I lose $1 for every $60 I bet it calculates to 1/60 or 1.66..%
The $5 on 5 or 9 I lose $1 for every $25 I bet it calculates to 1/25 or 4.00%
The $6 on 6 or 8 I lose $1 for every $66 I bet it calculates to 1/66 or 1.5151..%
The $5 on 4 or 10 I lose $1 for every $15 I bet it calculates to 1/15 or 6.6666..%
If they let me buy the 4 or 10 for $30 for a $1 commission it would be 1/90 or 1.111%.

wild child
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Re: Can You Debate Come Versus Place With Only Factual Statements?

Post by wild child » Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:59 pm

hard6 wrote: Sat Apr 11, 2020 11:47 am Irish
You might be doing your calculation when you only pay the vig on a win. I've never played in a house like that.
I play in lots of casinos here in Las Vegas that only collect the vig on a win,

The MP's $204 across strategy shows "$25 each on the Buy-4 and Buy-10......$35 each on the Place-5 and Place-9......$42 each on the Place-6 and Place-8. Any one of those six box-number bets kicks off the same $49 payout."

The simulations I have run both place and come odds were near zero.

The $20 on 4 or 10 buy I lose $1 for every $60 I bet it calculates to 1/60 or 1.66..%
The $5 on 5 or 9 I lose $1 for every $25 I bet it calculates to 1/25 or 4.00%
The $6 on 6 or 8 I lose $1 for every $66 I bet it calculates to 1/66 or 1.5151..%
The $5 on 4 or 10 I lose $1 for every $15 I bet it calculates to 1/15 or 6.6666..%
If they let me buy the 4 or 10 for $30 for a $1 commission it would be 1/90 or 1.111%.
Many Mississippi Gulf Coast joints allow BUY Box#4 & Buy Box$ 10 @ $35 for only $1.00
and
frequently when THE GOOD CREWs are on duty
so will the Native American /Tribal establishments.

In my experience, it is still BETTER TO ASK prior to making THE BUY
w c

hard6
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Re: Can You Debate Come Versus Place With Only Factual Statements?

Post by hard6 » Sat Apr 11, 2020 7:32 pm

wc

Do they only collect the vig on a win?

The Santa Ana casino in New Mexico didn't collect any vig on the 4 or 10 the last time I played there about 5 years ago.

220Inside
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Location: Massachusetts

Re: Can You Debate Come Versus Place With Only Factual Statements?

Post by 220Inside » Sat Apr 11, 2020 11:45 pm

Yes, vig collected on the back end in MS. They have the best craps games there.

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