The All, Small or Tall Bet

Setting and influencing the dice roll is just part of the picture. To beat the dice you have to know how to bet the dice. Whether you call it a "system," a "strategy," or just a way to play - this is the place to discuss it.

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22Inside
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Re: The All, Small or Tall Bet

Post by 22Inside » Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:36 am

That time estimate seems a bit excessive :) Some of it may depend on how they treat the existing ATS bets that need to be re-established. I've seen some places where they remove all of the bets first and then have to place them all back up again, which is insane. Most places, leave the bets up and the dealers go around and collect money from each player to reset them,

SammyNit
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Re: The All, Small or Tall Bet

Post by SammyNit » Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:52 pm

22Inside, Keep in mind I am playing on a Cruise Ship and on a Cruise Ship you will find that the Dealers rotate through ALL the Table Games including craps and a few Dealers each Cruise are new to craps.

Therefore, the Stick can be replaced anywhere from 5 to 20 minutes, so a new Stick will immediately remove all the ATS Bets and replace them back up, yes insane. Also, there is a lot of action every roll on betting, collecting, & pressure on the Horn, Hardways, etc., that takes a new Stick a lot of time to handle. Also, as the ATS builds with only snake eyes & midnight remaining, additional bets & pressure really come flying in. And Players are constantly pressing the Dealers bets (tips) as well. On top of this a lot of the players at the craps table are newbies, again slowing the game down.

So waiting 3 to 3 1/2 hours for the dice to return is NOT excessive at all! And I find myself constantly praying, please, please, no 7 On the CO Rolls!
“Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”

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Re: The All, Small or Tall Bet

Post by House of Orange » Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:01 pm

I play the GWAG, so I love my comeout sevens. Teach you degenerate gamblers to bet ats while I shoot. Part of GWAG is avoiding hi-low, so it’s impractical for me to bet it. Then if the payouts are 30-150-30, well I question if you are smarter than a fifth grader.

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Re: The All, Small or Tall Bet

Post by 22Inside » Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:34 pm

House of Orange wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:01 pm
I play the GWAG, so I love my comeout sevens. Teach you degenerate gamblers to bet ats while I shoot. Part of GWAG is avoiding hi-low, so it’s impractical for me to bet it. Then if the payouts are 30-150-30, well I question if you are smarter than a fifth grader.
Well, my GWAG includes shooting for horn numbers on CO rolls, so I will bet ATS, even though it's a bit reluctantly at the lower levels, or Repeater bets if they're offered. So, I guess I better dig out those grade school textbooks and 6 Million Dollar Man lunchbox and get back to class. You can question all you like.

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Re: The All, Small or Tall Bet

Post by r_ventura_23 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:05 pm

GWAG?

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Re: The All, Small or Tall Bet

Post by House of Orange » Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:19 pm

Repeater bets would be nice in Biloxi. Would be all over the 3/11. Would gladly eliminate my horn hi ace deuce bet.

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Re: The All, Small or Tall Bet

Post by Bankerdude80 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:02 pm

r_ventura_23 wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:05 pm
GWAG?
GWAG = Game within a game. Usually referring to the Come Out as a separate game from the making a point game. The player uses their dice setting skills to hit horns and/or naturals for a profit prior to establishing the point number.
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Re: The All, Small or Tall Bet

Post by vanDzl » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:06 pm

First time I ever rolled in a casino on Tuesday, so I just put down a min PL bet to practice on a real table. I hit 4 points and the all twice in the same roll. Didn't bet any of it ... so yeah ...

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Re: The All, Small or Tall Bet

Post by Big O » Sat Jan 19, 2019 12:11 am

Scouts wrote:Personally, I would rather that the time associated with the ATS vs the time tied to all the other center bets.
If i am understanding you correctly i agree. The center bets are the biggest slow down with payouts and presses on almost every single toss. Money flying in from all over even after the dice are out.
House of Orange Then if the payouts are 30-150-30, well I question if you are smarter than a fifth grader.
So, I guess I better dig out those grade school textbooks and 6 Million Dollar Man lunchbox and get back to class. You can question all you like.
Fifth graders are pretty smart nowdays, but i do feel like the casino is taking advantage with the lower payouts. Still 150 to 1 is still the best payout on the table. As far as GWAG strategies setting for and hitting horn numbers is one of my favorite parts of the game. My favorite series is a come out yo, press the bet and toss a 12. Makes a nice payout and kills the two hard numbers on the high side. I feel that i am money ahead on this bet as well as the ATS even though i dont have actual written stats. If i did and it proved me wrong i would have to stop betting it. Or i could bet it anyway and be dumber than a uneducated 5th grader.
SammyNit wrote: so a new Stick will immediately remove all the ATS Bets and replace them back up, yes insane.
I have never witnessed an ATS taken down unless it was knocked down or payed out. That would be insane.:
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Re: The All, Small or Tall Bet

Post by rhythm roller » Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:49 pm

I wish everyone that bets any feature bets would keep accurate records for at least 6 months to see if they are really ahead on any of these. I know some of you are and especially if you only bet it on yourselves but wouldn't it be better to know for sure that you are or if you just have selective memory. And how much are you ahead? Is it worth the down turns? Some just want to bet it for the action/fun and that is OK for them as long as they are not deceiving themselves about it. Accurate math would be interesting though I think and maybe eye opening for some.
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Re: The All, Small or Tall Bet

Post by House of Orange » Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:18 pm

rhythm roller wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:49 pm
Accurate math would be interesting though I think and maybe eye opening for some.
Agreed. Once those bets went to 20% house advantage I stopped betting. Those houses that still have the old payouts are now inundated by shot takers. But I think the vast majority are gamblers no matter if they consider themselves so called di’s.

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Re: The All, Small or Tall Bet

Post by DarthNater » Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:09 pm

rhythm roller wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:49 pm
I wish everyone that bets any feature bets would keep accurate records for at least 6 months to see if they are really ahead on any of these. I know some of you are and especially if you only bet it on yourselves but wouldn't it be better to know for sure that you are or if you just have selective memory. And how much are you ahead? Is it worth the down turns? Some just want to bet it for the action/fun and that is OK for them as long as they are not deceiving themselves about it. Accurate math would be interesting though I think and maybe eye opening for some.
Wow this thread keeps a rolling. I bet ATS on myself when I'm shooting from the PL on a table I know, frequently. I will also bet it on DIs I know, ESPECIALLY if they are betting it. I believe across the last decade that I'm well ahead, especially the first half of the decade with the higher payouts. For awhile someone was hitting it every day, alas now at 150 to 1 there seems less interest, but if you're counting skilled players, I think you need to bet it. A couple of the guys here are very adept at the outside numbers and the horns - so bet it - especially on GWAG - free shots at the horns.

I keep records of my wins, but not of the sublevels of individual bets. I'll try to for 2019. Meanwhile, here's my parametric rationale: 6 DI's at the table, $3 on the ATS - that's $18 a cycle around the table to win $150 or $30, or $210; why wouldn't you? Note I said DI, not randie......

As to pace, I don't care if it slows the game down, that's not my problem. The casino tries hard to disrupt our tempo, so I think most of us factor that into our approach.

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Re: The All, Small or Tall Bet

Post by rhythm roller » Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:33 pm

Scout,
I think for most this would end up being a negative bet. I certainly don't dispute that some with good skills and good discipline are able to make this bet and have a positive from it but I think that is a small percentage of those who bet it. One of the main reasons I think it would be negative is because sometimes in a hand it has to be reset several times. Without keeping records it could come down to selective memory. That is human nature.
"The difference between try and triumph is a little umph."

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Re: The All, Small or Tall Bet

Post by ErikC » Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:40 pm

SammyNit wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:52 pm
22Inside, Keep in mind I am playing on a Cruise Ship and on a Cruise Ship you will find that the Dealers rotate through ALL the Table Games including craps and a few Dealers each Cruise are new to craps.

Therefore, the Stick can be replaced anywhere from 5 to 20 minutes, so a new Stick will immediately remove all the ATS Bets and replace them back up, yes insane. Also, there is a lot of action every roll on betting, collecting, & pressure on the Horn, Hardways, etc., that takes a new Stick a lot of time to handle. Also, as the ATS builds with only snake eyes & midnight remaining, additional bets & pressure really come flying in. And Players are constantly pressing the Dealers bets (tips) as well. On top of this a lot of the players at the craps table are newbies, again slowing the game down.

So waiting 3 to 3 1/2 hours for the dice to return is NOT excessive at all! And I find myself constantly praying, please, please, no 7 On the CO Rolls!
Yes I was on the table with you, and it was insane that it took that long to get around. But we made it worth it. I hit the all once and the small/y’all each a couple of times. Always got hung up on the 11 it seemed lol. We had some great rolls and it was good to meet you. Hope to see you around another table one day, and enjoy your 3 weeks remaining on the Horizon!
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Re: The All, Small or Tall Bet

Post by Bankerdude80 » Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:14 am

I tend to look at betting the ATS as an entertainment bet, more so than an AP bet even on DI's. I won't bet it at properties where the minimum is $5 per section or $15 for the full ATS. As HoO has pointed out, the HA is just too high to overcome. Betting at the $1 level is easier to entertain as D.N8er has stated when DI's are on a table. I definitely won't bet it on randies. It does slow the game down when CO7's start to appear.
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Re: The All, Small or Tall Bet

Post by House of Orange » Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:27 am

Busy Wednesday morning for Biloxi’s finest. Seems three miscreants made a snatch and grab of chips at Scarlet Pearl. Without changing clothes they headed for the craps tub and Bac tables at Harrah’s where your humble servant was hard at work tossing cubes. Five members of Biloxi’s finest arrived with assistance from the security team. The bj (?) table next to the tub became police central, investigations, search, cuff and stuff ensued. While this was going on at the height of the proceedings, I managed to make the full ATS. Of course 90% of the time, I have no money on this short pay bet, and today was no exception. The delighted brother next to me, with 1-3-1 on It generously tipped me $50.

I missed out on another hit of the ATS at Scarlet Pearl, that same day. Local Vietnamese lad had 10-10-10 on it. That paid $350-$1760-$350. He had two buy ins of 1K and cashed $4950. Nice days pay which offset losses at roulette and sports betting.

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Re: The All, Small or Tall Bet

Post by heavy » Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:41 am

I tend to play just the Tall and Small OR just pick one side or the other after some judicious tracking of shooter's previous rolls when they want a minimum of $5. But I'll pony up on it on myself and on guys I know to be shooters. Don't win anywhere near all of them but enough to stay ahead of the game when limiting action this way.
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Re: The All, Small or Tall Bet

Post by Big O » Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:26 am

Heavy wrote,
I tend to play just the Tall and Small OR just pick one side or the other after some judicious tracking of shooter's previous rolls
I have played with Heavy enough to appreciate his intuition on betting, "hop the hard __," is a phrase i have heard on numerous occasions. Bam it hits. I like to think i have decent intuition, but i just struggle picking a side on the ATS. I try, but if there is too long of a pause getting the dice passes to the shooter i think, wait i better cover the other side. Now i think do i miss an 875 payout for 5 bucks! So now im up all the way across. As you can see im too far down the ATS rabbit hole to be helped, RUN! save yourselves. I have a dice buddy that often doesnt bet it or just bets the tall on himself. One trip when things were pretty down he bets the tall. I decide to do the same. Yes he hit the small! Its like a bag of marbles with a tiny hole. Somehow the marbles pour through it like you turned it upside down.

That being said i am up on the bet for the relatively short (compared to most of the guys here) craps career. Especially on myself, with a large part of my bankroll coming from ATS hits. I was even fortunate to score one full ATS hit when i accidentally bet on the wrong shooter and the randy brought it home.

Seriously though, where i think i tend to get the most benefit from it is from short under 10 roll halves that would normally be losses or marginal wins.
"if it was easy anyone could do it"

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Re: The All, Small or Tall Bet

Post by London Shooter » Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:59 pm

You are correct RR. Almost everybody, and that includes most on here is going to be well down on ATS and centre type bets. Nobody is beating the huge house edges on these bets long term that bets them frequently. Masses of confirmation bias exists about remembering the great wins, not the times you got wiped out with numerous re-sets along the way. :)

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Re: The All, Small or Tall Bet

Post by thnick » Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:44 am

Bet it when yr ahead for giggles if you want. Used to be a dealer at Cherokee, a woman who would say the same thing before every come out roll. "Any sucker bets? Popcorn?" Popcorn being the middle section of the table..horns, etc. Like somebody spilled a whole box of puffed up, air filled corn..She had it right.

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