Custom Layout for our Apt-size 8' Table, with photos!

Setting and influencing the dice roll is just part of the picture. To beat the dice you have to know how to bet the dice. Whether you call it a "system," a "strategy," or just a way to play - this is the place to discuss it.

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freak
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Custom Layout for our Apt-size 8' Table, with photos!

Post by freak » Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:14 am

I've been designing craps layouts for about 6 months now. I got frustrated by what was available online and have local access to fairly affordable printed fabric, so I made my own. I wanted something that had:
1) Big enough placed bet squares for multiple players
2) Hop bets
3) Fire bets
4) No wasted space for Big 6&8
5) Ample room for hard way bets for multiple players
6) Payout odds listed to help novice players remember payouts

So I started with a single layout design. A double layout is pointless for 2 players. It works great for L&I to roll on the kitchen table and practice betting strategies. Every bet possible all in arms reach. The fabric I can print on is really thin which makes it nice for folding up inside the chip case, but not very felt-like. So we got a sheet of 3/4" insulation foam board from Lowes, covered it with felt and put the layout on top. We added a diamond rubber corner on one end. Pretty nice.

Just before Christmas we found a 8' craps table on craigs list. Pretty good shape but a terrible layout. Barely room for two players on the placed bet areas, illogical prop bet area and just a lot of wasted space. So we bought the table and I made a layout to fit. Since my material is thin we stripped the old layout, glued felt to the board and then glued the layout to the felt. It's a bit more slippery than a casino table, but the bounce is nice. Not to hard, not too soft. We're having a party this weekend to officially christen the new table. It's too big to leave up in our apartment permanently but perfect for a party. Here's some pics. 1) Original layout. 2) Gluing on the felt. 3) Gluing the fabric layout to the felt. 4) Close Up view. 5) Our new table!

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Last edited by freak on Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I wanna see the dust...

bobr
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Re: Custom Layout for our Apt-size Table

Post by bobr » Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:24 am

Brilliant! Does the table itself come apart for storage? Or do you just take it off the stands and lean it up against a wall?

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heavy
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Re: Custom Layout for our Apt-size Table

Post by heavy » Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:38 am

Freak sent me a sample of the layouts he can print. As he said, the material is thin and a bit on the "slick" side, but it sounds like he's found a good answer for that with the underlayment. The layout itself is very well done, and I suspect come folks might even like to take one and frame it for a wall hanging in the man cave - or you might like to get one to press onto your practice rig to give yourself some realistic landing zones to focus on. If any of you are interested in something like this feel free to PM Freak on the forum to see if he can put one together for you.
"Get in, get up, and get gone."
- Heavy

freak
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Re: Custom Layout for our Apt-size Table

Post by freak » Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:51 am

Yes it comes apart. Four top pieces, the table board, two pedestals and two long braces underneath. It's pretty low as built, so we are just using the top part set on the kitchen table with a stool at each end for extra support. Very sturdy and the perfect height for us at 30.5" table top height. The rail is lower than a casino table but plenty high enough to keep the dice in. But that also means it's smaller and lighter for when we put it away in the closet. We're really happy with it so far. The only problem I anticipate is the chips will be very near the landing zone when we have 10 players this weekend. But the size of the layout was determined by getting the placed squares big enough to hold three sets of chips in front and back. Notice I took out the DP at the end and moved the DC into the come area. This allowed me to get the squares big enough. We can easily place bets for 12 players now which is what the chip rail is designed for.
I wanna see the dust...

rhythm roller
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Re: Custom Layout for our Apt-size Table

Post by rhythm roller » Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:10 pm

Great job Freak and L! 8-) I am sure the party will be a blast! When you play stick person at a party it seems you begin to appreciate the Craps crews more and more! :D
"The difference between try and triumph is a little umph."

freak
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Re: Custom Layout for our Apt-size Table

Post by freak » Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:34 pm

Very true RR. We have been working as dealers for a local casino party company. It's pretty low pressure since it's not real money, but we still want to provide as realistic of a game as we can. It has indeed given us even more appreciation for good dealers. My back is pretty sore after a 3 hour party. Hard to imagine doing it for 8. That said, we've played some 12 hours sessions on the front of the table. The real fatigue is mental. If there are a lot of drunks, or people betting odd amounts on the 6 & 8 it can really wear on me if I'm dealing. And if I'm in front, and losing it's REALLY annoying! ;)
I wanna see the dust...

freak
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Re: Custom Layout for our Apt-size 8' Table, with photos!

Post by freak » Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:54 pm

Good luck $nakeEye$. My first try was on a canvas material. The color was pretty good but it was stiff and got scratched easily by the dice. Next was an inexpensive fabric that I could print myself. Again the color was good but the finish was high gloss. Like a cheap plastic table cloth. I hated it. Next I found a place that could print on actual fabric. The first print felt pretty good but was really stretchy, like tee-shirt material. The color was very dull. No likey at all. Next I tried their dye-sub process that prints to special paper then heat transfers to the fabric. Bingo! Color is super bright and VERY sharp. But fabric choices are limited. However this thin fabric has a lot of advantages once you get over the fact that it isn't at all like felt. And once I GLUED it to felt I was really happy. The real key for me was being able to get all of the bets I wanted in the space I had, either the small kitchen table or the new 8' craps table. I even gave a few as Christmas presents. They really do look nice. ;)
I wanna see the dust...

Mad Professor
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Re: Custom Layout for our Apt-size 8' Table, with photos!

Post by Mad Professor » Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:12 am

Excellent work, Freak!

It reminds me a bit of the old 'Friendly Craps' layout that Fitzgerald's-LV used on their tables for a couple of years back in the very early 90's.

In addition to what you have, they printed a series of white numbered circles inside each Place-bet box designating each player's table position with a '1', '2', '3', etc.

That number corresponded with a white numbered circle in front of each player where your PL-ODDS bet goes (similar to a numbered Fire-bet circle, only closer to the Passline). That way, each new student player knew exactly which Place-bets were his. The layout also had similar numbered circles in their larger-than-normal Hardway boxes too.

By the way, the table itself looks great. Was the woodwork in that condition when you bought it?



MP

freak
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Re: Custom Layout for our Apt-size 8' Table, with photos!

Post by freak » Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:57 pm

Well the new table worked out great for the Saturday night party!! Small enough for the apartment. Big enough to hold 10 players comfortably. We played 3 sessions, all "tournament" style. This always created a flurry of crazy bets in the last 5 minutes of play. Not very casino-like, but really fun for a home party. L won 2nd place in the second session. I didn't win anything...but had a super-good time. The table is now in the closet waiting for next month's get-together.

Image
I wanna see the dust...

vegasfan2010

Re: Custom Layout for our Apt-size 8' Table, with photos!

Post by vegasfan2010 » Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:28 pm

Looks like everybody had a fun time. Nice table.

freak
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Re: Custom Layout for our Apt-size 8' Table, with photos!

Post by freak » Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:59 pm

The young lady in the corner is L. I don't remember what was said, but we were all sure having fun.

Now we are back to our kitchen table set up. We love it for practicing betting strategies. Nice to be able to sit! This week we've been playing with "Heavy's $30 6&8 one-hit then regress to $18 6&8" with good success the last two nights.

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I wanna see the dust...

evilo

Re: Custom Layout for our Apt-size 8' Table, with photos!

Post by evilo » Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:23 pm

Your table is impressive. I just ordered a 4 foot length of the rubber pyramids and a layout so I can make a practise rig. I'm excited about that so I can only imagine how exciting it was to build that beauty!

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heavy
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Re: Custom Layout for our Apt-size 8' Table, with photos!

Post by heavy » Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:01 pm

You really must stop posting pix of cute redheads ... unless I'm in the photo.
"Get in, get up, and get gone."
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amish dude
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Re: Custom Layout for our Apt-size 8' Table, with photos!

Post by amish dude » Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:17 pm

hay I like RED Heads to
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Re: Custom Layout for our Apt-size 8' Table, with photos!

Post by amish dude » Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:40 pm

amish dude wrote:hay I like RED Heads to
I marred one and I am now engaged to another one
The opinions stated here are the sole opinions and rights of the Author

freak
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Re: Custom Layout for our Apt-size 8' Table, with photos!

Post by freak » Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:46 am

Heavy wrote:You really must stop posting pix of cute redheads ... unless I'm in the photo.
OK. We'll plan for a pic of you and L this summer in Vegas. ;)
I wanna see the dust...

Michael
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Re: Custom Layout for our Apt-size 8' Table, with photos!

Post by Michael » Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:09 am

Amish Dude,
At the same time?
Rock On
M & M

amish dude
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Re: Custom Layout for our Apt-size 8' Table, with photos!

Post by amish dude » Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:55 pm

Michael wrote:Amish Dude,
At the same time?
YES Michel at the same time
The opinions stated here are the sole opinions and rights of the Author

freak
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Re: Custom Layout for our Apt-size 8' Table, with photos!

Post by freak » Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:15 pm

There's been an important development with my custom printed layouts so I thought I'd post an update to this thread...

Up until now I have been printing my layouts on a thin polyester material that looks great but lacks the tactile feel of felt or microfiber used in a live casino. Recently I found a source for "Gaming Suede" which improves the feel of the layout tremendously. Many casinos use this exact material on their craps and roulette tables. Anytime you see a detailed layout with images and bright vibrant colors you can bet it was produced via a dye-sublimation process on a "gaming suede" type of fabric. The custom image is printed on special transfer paper using a large format printer. This image is then transferred with heat and pressure to the fabric. It makes for excellent detail, color brightness and color fastness. We saw many examples of this in Vegas:

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Before large format printing became a viable option, craps layouts were generally silk-screened on felt. This is a fairly expensive printing process because each color being printed requires it's own screen. The felt provided the dominant color (usually green) and all other colors (like white red and black) were printed on top of the green color. The ink had to be very opaque to cover the strong color of the felt. The inked areas often felt raised because the ink was so thick. The set-up cost for a layout like this is several hundred or even a thousand dollars depending on size and complexity. Not so bad if you're going to print 12 layouts but darn expensive if just need one.

Modern table game layouts are printed on white fabric. The full color printing process lays down ink just like a desktop inkjet printer. This allows for limitless possibilities with respect to color and design. This is also much less expensive than silk screen printing because there is no set-up cost. The only "set-up" is designing the layout image. Printing on actual white felt with full color printing is not possible because felt is a poor choice for the dye-sub process, so a similar fabric is used which mimics the feel of felt as best as possible. The most common fabric used is called "Gaming Suede" as it is somewhat similar to felt. Some people call this "Microfiber." There are different brands and weights but the goal is to feel similar to felt while allowing for detailed, full color printing.

I started designing craps layouts about a year ago because what I found online was cheezy. I wanted hop bets and the fire bet on my layout. And I wanted to compress everything to fit exactly on my smaller table but still have large placed bet squares. Now that I have digitized my basic layout, I have the ability to make a variation in virtually any size or color. I made a double layout for some newlywed friends with their wedding date in the field. I have several smaller single layouts that we use when practice betting on the kitchen table. When we got back from Vegas I made a new layout for our 8' home table that included the all/tall/small rather than the fire bet. I've done paisleys and butterflies in the background. The possibilities are pretty much endless. Here's a few pics of some of the ones I've done so far:

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So I wanted to let folks know that I have a better fabric option now. If you are interested in a custom design craps layout for your practice rig, your kitchen table, your craps table or your wall shoot me a PM.

Freak
I wanna see the dust...

erie_monster

Re: Custom Layout for our Apt-size 8' Table, with photos!

Post by erie_monster » Wed Nov 12, 2014 6:54 pm

freak wrote:I've been designing craps layouts for about 6 months now. I got frustrated by what was available online and have local access to fairly affordable printed fabric, so I made my own. I wanted something that had:
1) Big enough placed bet squares for multiple players
2) Hop bets
3) Fire bets
4) No wasted space for Big 6&8
5) Ample room for hard way bets for multiple players
6) Payout odds listed to help novice players remember payouts

So I started with a single layout design. A double layout is pointless for 2 players. It works great for L&I to roll on the kitchen table and practice betting strategies. Every bet possible all in arms reach. The fabric I can print on is really thin which makes it nice for folding up inside the chip case, but not very felt-like. So we got a sheet of 3/4" insulation foam board from Lowes, covered it with felt and put the layout on top. We added a diamond rubber corner on one end. Pretty nice.

Just before Christmas we found a 8' craps table on craigs list. Pretty good shape but a terrible layout. Barely room for two players on the placed bet areas, illogical prop bet area and just a lot of wasted space. So we bought the table and I made a layout to fit. Since my material is thin we stripped the old layout, glued felt to the board and then glued the layout to the felt. It's a bit more slippery than a casino table, but the bounce is nice. Not to hard, not too soft. We're having a party this weekend to officially christen the new table. It's too big to leave up in our apartment permanently but perfect for a party. Here's some pics. 1) Original layout. 2) Gluing on the felt. 3) Gluing the fabric layout to the felt. 4) Close Up view. 5) Our new table!

Image
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What is the white underlayment? Is that flannel? I watched some guys at Cleveland HorseShoe replace a layout and it looks like the same thing. Can you get this at JoAnne Fabrics or something like that?

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