Setting and influencing the dice roll is just part of the picture. To beat the dice you have to know how to bet the dice. Whether you call it a "system," a "strategy," or just a way to play - this is the place to discuss it.
It's been awhile since we've talked about WinCraps from Cloud City Software, and it's time we corrected that. In fact, I am going to start two threads about WinCraps on the forum - this one on the Betting Systems and Strategies sub-board, which is visible to the general public visiting the site - and another which we'll crank up on the Experts Speak sub-board in the next day or so. I'm going to invite Steen in to host the Experts Speaks thread and answer any questions you might have about WinCraps, writing betting scripts, running auto-bet files, et al. But before we do all that let's talk about the newest version of WinCraps - WinCraps Pro.
This is NOT WinCraps Pro:
That's the old half-table single player version we all know and love. It's a GREAT program and I highly recommend it. then again . . .
Okay, that's probably not fair because I had to re-size the layout to conform with the forum's max photo restrictions. But you get the idea. It's a full table layout that accommodates up to eight players. Fully configurable as a traditional layout, a Fire Bet layout, or a Midway Bet layout, WinCraps Pro has a great look and feel. It can be sized, moved, rotated, and has added statistics and a new autobetting engine that provides a lot more flexibility. The new auto-betting engine uses the more familiar If/Then syntax, allows nested logic, uses plain text files which can be created or edited in any text editor, and includes a number of new functions. Data is now tracked for the current hand, last hand, current session, last session, and all sessions (cumulative). All of that means scripts will be much easier for you to write and execute.
If I sound like a fan, it's because I am. You can download a trial/shareware version for free at http://cloudcitysoftware.com/index.htm. The free version has some limits on what you can do, but you'll enjoy playing with it. Decide you want the full version - up and working? WinCraps Pro Registration is just $14.95. You can purchase it on Steen's website and he'll e-mail you an activation code within 24 hours or so and get you up and running.
Check it out. Comments from current WinCraps users welcome.
I just purchased the original wincraps a couple months or so back. Wincraps Pro really looks good. I guess I'm going to have to start looking at switching over. I haven't figured out half of the old version yet though!!
I have to say that Steen is very responsive to emails. I was developing my own software to interact with WinCraps using the Windows API and was having some problems. He helped me out by answering some questions I had as to how WinCraps runs under the hood - so I'm sure he'd be more than willing to answer much less technical questions than what I was asking.
Usually with software you're lucky to even get an automated "piss off" message if you look for any help or even just want to say "thank you." I was sure what I was doing would be frowned upon but found quite the contrary to be the case.
My first WinCraps was on a 5 1/2" disc so that possibly makes me a real fan. This is the best way to work on systems. Highly recommended from me. By Friday I will have the new Pro version. sia
"It is unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've played all your life."
~ Mickey Mantle "Luck is where the crossroads of opportunity and preparation meet."
Seneca, a first-century Roman philosopher
I might add that I've found Steen's how-to manual included in the package to be as good of a craps primer as there is out there. In fact, it's better than a lot of books sold on the subject. Just sayin'.
Greetings everyone! Thanks for all the kind words and especially thanks to Heavy for the nice remarks about WinCraps and the invitation to participate here.
It's been a while since I've participated in a craps forum. As many of you may remember I wrote a lot in the old rec.gambling.craps forum. It had many colorful characters and many heated exchanges, but it brought out a lot of good information. I think I learned a lot and hopefully have helped pass it on. The achiles heel of r.g.c. was its vulnerability to spam which became increasingly unwieldy as the participants became fewer. It's nice to see that there are now well moderated forums such as this which are able to keep things more civil, on topic, and spam-free.
I'm afraid I don't have the same amount of free time I once had, but I'm sure I can still contribute something to the fray.
Regarding WinCraps: Yes, I'm looking into doing an android version possibly followed by something for the ipad. In the meantime, I continue to tweek the pc version, remain open to suggestions for improvements, and am happy to answer any questions.
Well Steen and all, if any of you know me, then you know that I am BIG fan of WinCraps and have literally hundreds of betting methods on my computer. It was the best $20 I ever spent on any PC software in my life. It has saved me thousands of dollars at the casino making stupid bets. Welcome to the forum Steen, I am sure we will have a lot to talk about. The program that Wudged wrote is fantastic and is a big time saver!
al_falcons wrote:Well Steen and all, if any of you know me, then you know that I am BIG fan of WinCraps and have literally hundreds of betting methods on my computer. It was the best $20 I ever spent on any PC software in my life. It has saved me thousands of dollars at the casino making stupid bets. Welcome to the forum Steen, I am sure we will have a lot to talk about. The program that Wudged wrote is fantastic and is a big time saver!
Thanks, I'd be happy to discuss anything you like. One thing that I think might be of interest here is the topic of roll files. A lot of users like to record live practice and/or casino rolls and use them to run simulations. These files can be used both with WinCraps Classic and Pro. However, there are different ways to use them and some can be rather cumbersome with the Classic version but very easy with the Pro version.
For example, say that Joe has two dice roll files recorded from the results of his practice session. One file records his attempts to increase the frequency 7's and the other file records his attempts to decrease the frequency of 7's. He wants to run a simulation that uses one file during the come-out roll and the other during established points.
With the Classic version he has cumbersome task of manually loading the files on each new come-out roll or whenever a point is established. Furthermore, he needs to keep track of his progression through the files so he can queue them up to start at the right spot whenever he switches.
With the Pro version he can load and manage both files through auto-betting.
If Initializing script Then cs1.rollnumber = 0 : cs2.rollnumber = 0 EndIf If Next roll is a comeout roll Then Add 1 to cs1.rollnumber : Playback dice roll file "more7s.rol" from roll # cs1.rollnumber Else Add 1 to cs2.rollnumber : Playback dice roll file "less7s.rol" from roll # cs2.rollnumber EndIf
Cs1 and cs2 (checkstacks) keep track of the roll number as it increases in each file.
By the way, where can I find the program that Wudged created? I'd like to see the end product. Wudged?
It's rather clunky because, as you may recall I emailed you about, I had some problems with how the Visual Basic forms of WinCraps respond to the Windows API calls that are being made. The Windows API allows me to run "macros" against WinCraps, but the Visual Basic forms have timing issues so there are a lot of random pauses in between the calls.
Ultimately what it does is test a certain betting strategy against multiple roll files. As you also probably already know, al_falcons has spent TONS of time testing various strategies against thousands of live recorded rolls, all of which have been broken down into "sessions." I thought it would be helpful to be able to have a "script" to run through it all automatically instead of having to manually load every .rol file and record the results.
To use it, first open up WinCraps, and then open up WinCrapsAssistent.exe. You will select the .bet file you want to test, enter the starting bankroll, and then select a directory of .rol files. After you click the button to begin, you will see the various windows of WinCraps flashing across the screen as it runs through all the files. At the end of each .rol file, it records some different stats, like total bets won/lost, total money won/lost, and net won/lost.
al_falcons and I were also using WinCraps to test some baccarat strategies (read more at http://diceinstitute.mxf.yuku.com/topic ... ods?page=1 ,) and to simulate the 5% banker commission we were just depositing money into the ATM after each banker win. So, there is also another column for "commission" (which is really the difference in your starting bankroll, the bets won/lost, and your ending bankroll - and should always be 0 for craps games unless the script visits the ATM.)
All these values are stored in a .csv file, which is saved to the .rol directory under the same name as the .bet file. So if you were testing "pitts-johnny-10.bet" there would be a "pitts-johnny-10.csv" file in the .rol directory. After the script completes, the .csv file should open automatically.
As I mentioned already, the program is very clunky because of various Windows API issues. I have only tested it on Windows Vista (al_falcons has used it as well, not sure what he runs.) Sometimes it will crash for unknown reasons, but when you initially enter your settings they are saved automatically, so next time you run it you don't have to enter everything all over. It also saves the results immediately after each .rol is processed, so when you restart the program after a crash you don't have to sit through them all over again - just the unprocessed ones.
Another issue is that you can't use your computer while it is processing, as it takes over the mouse.
It could use a lot of polishing, but it works well enough for what I need so I haven't bothered to do much more work with it. The code is also a bit messy because all the API issues were frustrating me and I was focused on getting it to work rather than keeping it clean. All it needs is a bit of marinara on top of this big pile of spaghetti!
Here is a demo of an earlier version in action. If you turn the volume up loud enough, you can hear when my mouse is actually clicking versus when the program is doing everything in WinCraps automated.
Wudged, I use Windows 7 on my computer. It works fairly well, but tends to crash about 30-40% of the time for me. Most of the time in the middle of a large run of roll files. I still prefer to use it even if it is for only a few roll files, because of the nature of how I test, I want to test as many betting strategies against my rolls as possible. I think that after football season, I will go ahead and update to the pro version when I don't spend as much time worrying about my fantasy football teams.