Game Within a Game - Revisited

Setting and influencing the dice roll is just part of the picture. To beat the dice you have to know how to bet the dice. Whether you call it a "system," a "strategy," or just a way to play - this is the place to discuss it.

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Game Within a Game - Revisited

Post by heavy » Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:33 pm

I'd like to hear your ideas on what we call GWAG. That stands for the Game Within a Game. For most of us it's the Come Out Game versus the Point Cycle Game. Many of us play the Come Out cycle of the game differently than the Point Cycle. For example, I've always played a Horn game on the Come Out. I play a table minimum Pass Line bet, then I play $5 on the World and $1 each on the High/Low (2 and 12). In a standard game (non-Caesars) a 2 or 12 pays $55. The 3 or 11 pays $11. If it's a $10 Game you win net $20 on the 11. The 3 craps ends up being a push. I typically "same bet" on the 3, but press by $7 on the 2, 11, or 12. A second hit on the 2 or 12 pays $110. The 11 pays $22, and so on. My record is six consecutive 12's, four consecutive aces, 13 consecutive horn numbers (that 13 included a couple of sevens, which were pushes on the World, winners on the Pass Line - and the high low had to be replaced). Those personal bests, by the way, were three major wins spread over 50 years of play so don't start frothing at the mouth thinking you're going to rush out and do this next week (although it COULD happen).

There are other players in the APC group of "regulars" who play similar Come Out strategies who are quite successful with it, so it certainly is working on some level. Are any of you playing a similar strategy on the Come Out? If not a Horn bet Come Out strategy, what Come Out strategy do you use? Hop Sevens play? That's a decent one. Hop Hard Ways? That could work as well.

From there we get into Point Cycle Game Within a Game Plays. The most common is probably the Hardway play. Among my favorites is to wait until I start seeing hardways being thrown, then to get on them anywhere from $1 to $5 each. Then I start feeding them with what I call my "trash chips" from payoffs. If a bet pays me $14 I'll take the $4 of the payoff and toss it on all of the hardways. If it pays me $21 there's another buck to toss on a hardway. A $42 payoff gives me a couple of more dollars to split between a six and eight or four and ten. I just keep feeding the hardways, and if one gets knocked off then my next handful of trash chips goes right in that spot. You'd be surprised at how many times you'll end up with $18 - $24 piled up on a hard ten and suddenly it hits. Or any other number for that matter. It's just an easy way to get some money on the hardways without really thinking about it too much.

Any other GWAG plays? How about that old "See a Horn - Bet a Horn play?" Guaranteed to work 16.67% of the time over the long run. LOL. I get accused of teaching this strategy, but I do not - and have said so many times. This is a pure case of "do as I say, not as I do." I tell players not to make this bet, but they see me make it and win in the casino and the next thing you know they are following my lead. So here's when and why I make it. I only play "see a horn - bet a horn" on players who are setting the dice and ATTEMPTING a controlled toss. Typically when a DI starts tossing trash numbers it's because he is struggling some element of his throw. It may be his grip, the angle of his toss, his release, or his landing zone. But my experience has been that when these problems start to show up they show up in clumps until the shooter either figures out what's wrong and fixes it - or sevens out. So I take a shot with the "see a horn" bet (rather than laying the point, which is probably what I should do) and take my chances. Seems like more often than not I win that bet. I'm not telling YOU to do it. I'm just telling you my thoughts behind making the play myself.

So there you go. A little bit of Heavy's Game Within a Game Play. You tell me. What's yours and why?
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- Heavy

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Re: Game Within a Game - Revisited

Post by skasower » Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:31 pm

I like playing the World bet on the come out (and thank you Heavy for the "trash chips" idea, I am going to use it for certain on some prop bets in the future). The GWAG I particularly like is the All-Tall-Small bets and play those if they are available.

The reason I like these bets is that I still aspire to be (and sometimes even) practice to assure I get to be a competent and increasingly dependable DI. I am not surprising any of you folks reading this that the goal is illusive even among the best of us. Still, I persevere. Both the World, (and other prop bets) and the ATS get me thinking about accuracy of on axis tosses and sets. I like this kind of real time practice even though my gambling budget suffers if I practice this way too often.

skasower, who is still paranoid about the Covid and does not go to casinos in over one year!
Profe$$or Ka$hFi$h

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