I'd do it in a heartbeat, but getting to Vegas from Atlanta..I'm checking cheap flights now. Great idea! You really get the tables
to yourselves.
Darksider's Ball - GAC?
Moderators: 220Inside, DarthNater
Re: Darksider's Ball - GAC?
Count me in.
The one thing that stop's most DI's from shooting from the don't is you lose possession the dice when you toss a seven with the puck "on". Seven is already the most common number, it should also be the easiest one for a DI to toss more of. A group of like minded players should have a good chance of success if they take over a table and all play the don't in one form or another.
The one thing that stop's most DI's from shooting from the don't is you lose possession the dice when you toss a seven with the puck "on". Seven is already the most common number, it should also be the easiest one for a DI to toss more of. A group of like minded players should have a good chance of success if they take over a table and all play the don't in one form or another.
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Bankerdude80
- Posts: 1895
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Re: Darksider's Ball - GAC?
I'm game. Still working on the travel arrangements, etc (time-off) for GAC.
"Take the Money and Run...."
- Steve Miller Band
- Steve Miller Band
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flextimeLV
- Posts: 282
- Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 6:25 am
Re: Darksider's Ball - GAC?
GAC stands for....?
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wiremonkey
- Posts: 98
- Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2016 8:18 am
Re: Darksider's Ball - GAC?
Great American Crapshoot July 15-17 Vegas
Re: Darksider's Ball - GAC?
Here's a link to the ad for the event: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4373
We get together every July in Vegas for this seminar weekend. We've been doing it since around 2004, I believe. Originally it was me, Irish, and Maddog. Later we brought Dice Coach into the event. In recent years Maddog has had to bow out due to day job and family conflicts (but he is still participating in the Veteran's Day Craps Reveille weekend) and Howard "Rock 'n Roller" has filled that slot. Botton line - four of the best coaches in the business looking at your toss and getting it dialed in. Plenty of opportunities for live sessions. A ton of fun.
We get together every July in Vegas for this seminar weekend. We've been doing it since around 2004, I believe. Originally it was me, Irish, and Maddog. Later we brought Dice Coach into the event. In recent years Maddog has had to bow out due to day job and family conflicts (but he is still participating in the Veteran's Day Craps Reveille weekend) and Howard "Rock 'n Roller" has filled that slot. Botton line - four of the best coaches in the business looking at your toss and getting it dialed in. Plenty of opportunities for live sessions. A ton of fun.
"Get in, get up, and get gone."
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paytheline
- Posts: 19
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Re: Darksider's Ball - GAC?
I would love go. I'm checking some airline prices and my vacation time at work.
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pappyvanwinkle
- Posts: 292
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Re: Darksider's Ball - GAC?
I remember Memo and I were doing experimenting with some dark side play at a MGM property. We literally found a whole bunch of randies who knew how to play the dark and more than half of the table was on the dark. We were the friendliest group of darksiders the box/crew ever saw. We generally warned anyone that bought in, that we were all playing the don'ts and to play however they wanted to, pay us no mind, we were not trying to put chips in their way etc. I remember the floorman commenting to another floorman, "two tables both full, one table playing the do's, the other playing the don'ts, both cheering and happy, go figure" There are only two negatives to the experience. If your going to play the dark side, be properly funded, couple of times, I was digging back into the well to get my lay bets in. The other was the box got annoyed with some of us, putting all the lay action in, because the dealer's would have to keep track of all of our bets, and the area where they can place the chips for the don't action is a lot smaller! Also, some of the dealers actually had to think about the payoff.
Don't do the crime, if you can't do the time
Re: Darksider's Ball - GAC?
I'm starting to get direct inquiries from forum members about the Darksider's Ball side-event at GAC. Irish and I need to visit to discuss scheduling. We already have two traditional live sessions planned for Sunday, so we'll be looking at finding an out-of-the way casino for Saturday night play or adding a third live session on Sunday - most likely late afternoon. While we think about that, I thought I'd toss out an old article I did on darksider play. I'm going to follow that with some additional info that those of you planning to attend GAC may appreciate.
From time to time a player will ask me if playing the Don’ts is compatible with precision shooting. My answer – absolutely. Think about it. The seven is already the most powerful number on the dice. If you can throw MORE sevens than the law of averages says you should – then you can make MORE money on the Don’ts.
Here are three strategies I’ve seen sharp shooting darksiders use with some degree of success:
$194 Across Lay for One Roll. The name says it all. I consider this a Right-Way play with a Don’t entrée. The shooter lays all of the box numbers - $41 no four and no ten, $31 no five and no nine, and $25 no six and no eight. He also plays $20 on the Pass Line. Then he sets for and tosses the seven. The results? A come out seven will win $120 on the Lay action – minus a total of $6 in commissions. A net win of $114 plus a $20 Pass Line win for a total hit of $134.
Admittedly this is a high-risk play. But your average loss on this play is only $31, and you have a shot at winning $134. If you can keep the dice on-axis and toss the seven 25% of the time this play is a definite winner.
$31 No Five or No Nine and the Straight Sixes. Have you ever taken the time to really look at the numbers distribution on the various pre-sets? On the straight sixes set there is one way each to roll the two and the twelve, two ways each to roll the three and eleven, one way each to roll the four and the ten, and two ways each to roll the six and the eight. There are four ways to roll the seven – but there are NO combinations on this axis that add up to five or nine.
The play, then, is to Lay against the five or nine, pre-set the 3-4 / 3-4 (straight sixes) to an All Sevens set with 6-1 facing up and down – and the 5-2 facing front and back. Toss a Come-out seven and you win a quick $20 off the Lay bet.
Set the Four or Ten – then Seven Out. Another dice pre-set favored by precision shooters tossing from the Don’ts is the V-2 (hard four) set with the 3-4 / 6-1 on axis. There are two ways each to make the four or ten with the dice set to this axis – and that’s exactly the strategy. The shooter plays a Don’t Pass bet and sets the four or ten as his point. Then he switches to either the Straight Sixes (3-4 / 3-4) or the All Sevens (6-1 / 6-1) pre-set and deliberately sevens out.
The biggest deterrent to precision shooting from the Don’ts is the simple fact that the shooter loses the dice when he sevens out. For that reason – if you are considering any of these plays you should scout for empty or near empty tables so you’ll get the dice back quickly – and can seven out again.
Getting (Bets) Laid
Lay bets can be a valuable weapon in your dark-side arsenal. The lay bet is the opposite of a Buy bet. The player pays a commission to the house for the right to choose which point he wants to play against the seven. If the seven is thrown before the Lay number the player wins.
Lay bets can be made on any of the box numbers - the 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, or 10. The payoff is based on the correct odds.
A lay bet on the 4 or 10 is paid at 1:2 odds. The correct bet size is $41 no-four or no-ten. The extra dollar in the wager represents the house’s commission of 5%. The 5% figure is based on the anticipated payoff of $20.
A lay bet on the 5 or 9 is paid at 2:3 odds. The correct bet size is $31 no-five or no-nine. Again, the anticipated payoff is $20.
A lay bet on the 6 or 8 is paid at 5:6. The correct bet size is $25 no-six or no-eight, and as before the anticipated payoff is $20.
A lay bet on the four or ten looks very attractive to many players. But remember, it takes a substantial bankroll to lay against the numbers. This is not to say that lay bets do not have a roll in conservative strategy. But that roll is primarily limited to hedging other bets.
Let’s step up to the table with our dark-sider friend Darth again. Lately come-out naturals have been hammering Darth. It seems like every time he tosses out a $15 Don’t Pass bet the shooter rolls a seven. In order to protect himself from the Come-out sevens Darth has decided to Lay $41 no-four as a hedge. So, he places $15 on the Don’t Pass line – then drops $41 in front of the dealer and says “Forty-one no four, please.”
The dealer sets up the bet, the stick moves the dice, and the shooter tosses an eight. Darth now has a $15 Don’t Pass bet on the eight, with six ways to win on the seven and five ways to lose on the eight. Next he tells the dealer to, “Bring me down off the four.” The dealer returns his $41 to him and he’s good to go.
Had the seven shown on the Come out roll the $15 Don’t Pass bet would have lost. However Darth would have won $20 (net $19 after the commission) on the Lay bet. His net result would have been a $4 win for the series.
Of course, the shooter could have thrown the four – in which case Darth would have lost $41 – but would have left him with a very strong Don’t number established as his point. He could have partially hedged the no-four bet by tossing out a $5 hard four wager. But at that point he would be hedging his hedges – and that sort of play is simply too cost prohibitive over the long run.
To Lay or not to Lay – that is the question. The answer – it’s up to you.
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Three Don't PlaysFrom time to time a player will ask me if playing the Don’ts is compatible with precision shooting. My answer – absolutely. Think about it. The seven is already the most powerful number on the dice. If you can throw MORE sevens than the law of averages says you should – then you can make MORE money on the Don’ts.
Here are three strategies I’ve seen sharp shooting darksiders use with some degree of success:
$194 Across Lay for One Roll. The name says it all. I consider this a Right-Way play with a Don’t entrée. The shooter lays all of the box numbers - $41 no four and no ten, $31 no five and no nine, and $25 no six and no eight. He also plays $20 on the Pass Line. Then he sets for and tosses the seven. The results? A come out seven will win $120 on the Lay action – minus a total of $6 in commissions. A net win of $114 plus a $20 Pass Line win for a total hit of $134.
Admittedly this is a high-risk play. But your average loss on this play is only $31, and you have a shot at winning $134. If you can keep the dice on-axis and toss the seven 25% of the time this play is a definite winner.
$31 No Five or No Nine and the Straight Sixes. Have you ever taken the time to really look at the numbers distribution on the various pre-sets? On the straight sixes set there is one way each to roll the two and the twelve, two ways each to roll the three and eleven, one way each to roll the four and the ten, and two ways each to roll the six and the eight. There are four ways to roll the seven – but there are NO combinations on this axis that add up to five or nine.
The play, then, is to Lay against the five or nine, pre-set the 3-4 / 3-4 (straight sixes) to an All Sevens set with 6-1 facing up and down – and the 5-2 facing front and back. Toss a Come-out seven and you win a quick $20 off the Lay bet.
Set the Four or Ten – then Seven Out. Another dice pre-set favored by precision shooters tossing from the Don’ts is the V-2 (hard four) set with the 3-4 / 6-1 on axis. There are two ways each to make the four or ten with the dice set to this axis – and that’s exactly the strategy. The shooter plays a Don’t Pass bet and sets the four or ten as his point. Then he switches to either the Straight Sixes (3-4 / 3-4) or the All Sevens (6-1 / 6-1) pre-set and deliberately sevens out.
The biggest deterrent to precision shooting from the Don’ts is the simple fact that the shooter loses the dice when he sevens out. For that reason – if you are considering any of these plays you should scout for empty or near empty tables so you’ll get the dice back quickly – and can seven out again.
Getting (Bets) Laid
Lay bets can be a valuable weapon in your dark-side arsenal. The lay bet is the opposite of a Buy bet. The player pays a commission to the house for the right to choose which point he wants to play against the seven. If the seven is thrown before the Lay number the player wins.
Lay bets can be made on any of the box numbers - the 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, or 10. The payoff is based on the correct odds.
A lay bet on the 4 or 10 is paid at 1:2 odds. The correct bet size is $41 no-four or no-ten. The extra dollar in the wager represents the house’s commission of 5%. The 5% figure is based on the anticipated payoff of $20.
A lay bet on the 5 or 9 is paid at 2:3 odds. The correct bet size is $31 no-five or no-nine. Again, the anticipated payoff is $20.
A lay bet on the 6 or 8 is paid at 5:6. The correct bet size is $25 no-six or no-eight, and as before the anticipated payoff is $20.
A lay bet on the four or ten looks very attractive to many players. But remember, it takes a substantial bankroll to lay against the numbers. This is not to say that lay bets do not have a roll in conservative strategy. But that roll is primarily limited to hedging other bets.
Let’s step up to the table with our dark-sider friend Darth again. Lately come-out naturals have been hammering Darth. It seems like every time he tosses out a $15 Don’t Pass bet the shooter rolls a seven. In order to protect himself from the Come-out sevens Darth has decided to Lay $41 no-four as a hedge. So, he places $15 on the Don’t Pass line – then drops $41 in front of the dealer and says “Forty-one no four, please.”
The dealer sets up the bet, the stick moves the dice, and the shooter tosses an eight. Darth now has a $15 Don’t Pass bet on the eight, with six ways to win on the seven and five ways to lose on the eight. Next he tells the dealer to, “Bring me down off the four.” The dealer returns his $41 to him and he’s good to go.
Had the seven shown on the Come out roll the $15 Don’t Pass bet would have lost. However Darth would have won $20 (net $19 after the commission) on the Lay bet. His net result would have been a $4 win for the series.
Of course, the shooter could have thrown the four – in which case Darth would have lost $41 – but would have left him with a very strong Don’t number established as his point. He could have partially hedged the no-four bet by tossing out a $5 hard four wager. But at that point he would be hedging his hedges – and that sort of play is simply too cost prohibitive over the long run.
To Lay or not to Lay – that is the question. The answer – it’s up to you.
"Get in, get up, and get gone."
- Heavy
- Heavy
Re: Darksider's Ball - GAC?
Okay, boys and girls. If I were teaching a Dark Sider's Dice Control Class the above article plus two other betting strategies I teach - combined with the information I'm about to give you access to - would cost you around $595. My competitors would charge three times that amount. It is what it is.
The following content is protected under Copyright 2002 by Stephen Haltom and Axis Power Publishing, LLC. I'm granting you guys permission to print one copy for your personal use/reference as well as electronic access at no charge. However, you do not have permission to republish this information in any form - including electronic media. Publishing this information on-line without my express written permission is a violation of the Digital Media Protection Act and will result in legal action for copyright infringement. I hope I make myself clear there.
These slides are from my Dark Sider Dice Control Class. If you read the text on the slides you should be able to understand the general approach of the class completely. There is only ONE primary set I recommend utilizing as your Come Out set when shooting from the Don'ts. That set is the V-2. Why? Because you want to attempt to set a hard number - like the four or ten - as your point when shooting from the Don'ts.
Once you establish a point you have a choice of three All Sevens sets to use to attempt to seven out. Which set you choose depends on what the established point is.
ALL of this assumes you have a relatively high on-axis percentage with your toss. Clearly you might choose different sets for both the Come Out and the Seven Out attempt depending upon your BoneTracker tracking. Note that there are several "off-axis" type throws taught by my competitors that are great if you are attempting to Seven Out. (Yes, that was a joke).
Here are the slides:
Note that when you have an even number as the point I always recommend doing a partial hedge against the point with a hardway bet on that number. Other than that - it's pretty straight forward. Bet within your comfort zone. I recommend you always Lay odds, but that's a personal choice. I find a $10 DP with $30 odds, a $15 DP with $60 odds, or a $25 DP with $90 odds to be relatively simple number to work with when laying odds. Those odds amounts will work on any number and get a correct pay off.
Send your $595 to Steve "Heavy' Haltom . . .
Enjoy.
The following content is protected under Copyright 2002 by Stephen Haltom and Axis Power Publishing, LLC. I'm granting you guys permission to print one copy for your personal use/reference as well as electronic access at no charge. However, you do not have permission to republish this information in any form - including electronic media. Publishing this information on-line without my express written permission is a violation of the Digital Media Protection Act and will result in legal action for copyright infringement. I hope I make myself clear there.
These slides are from my Dark Sider Dice Control Class. If you read the text on the slides you should be able to understand the general approach of the class completely. There is only ONE primary set I recommend utilizing as your Come Out set when shooting from the Don'ts. That set is the V-2. Why? Because you want to attempt to set a hard number - like the four or ten - as your point when shooting from the Don'ts.
Once you establish a point you have a choice of three All Sevens sets to use to attempt to seven out. Which set you choose depends on what the established point is.
ALL of this assumes you have a relatively high on-axis percentage with your toss. Clearly you might choose different sets for both the Come Out and the Seven Out attempt depending upon your BoneTracker tracking. Note that there are several "off-axis" type throws taught by my competitors that are great if you are attempting to Seven Out. (Yes, that was a joke).
Here are the slides:
- Slide7.JPG (38.62 KiB) Viewed 14693 times
- Slide8.JPG (33.68 KiB) Viewed 14693 times
- Slide9.JPG (29.8 KiB) Viewed 14693 times
- Slide10.JPG (34.46 KiB) Viewed 14693 times
- Slide11.JPG (31.22 KiB) Viewed 14693 times
Send your $595 to Steve "Heavy' Haltom . . .
Enjoy.
"Get in, get up, and get gone."
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Bankerdude80
- Posts: 1895
- Joined: Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:05 pm
Re: Darksider's Ball - GAC?
If you have a table full of DI darksiders shouldn't that translate into quicker movement of the dice around the table? Or do a few of them get stuck tossing the hand of a lifetime while (arrgh) trying to toss the GD seven?heavy wrote:The biggest deterrent to precision shooting from the Don’ts is the simple fact that the shooter loses the dice when he sevens out. For that reason – if you are considering any of these plays you should scout for empty or near empty tables so you’ll get the dice back quickly – and can seven out again.
Thanks for the additional darkside info!
"Take the Money and Run...."
- Steve Miller Band
- Steve Miller Band
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Bankerdude80
- Posts: 1895
- Joined: Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:05 pm
Re: Darksider's Ball - GAC?
As a DI incorporating darkside play, does the following strategy make sense? Use a standard come-out (all-sevens) set, lay bet all the box numbers across and keep tossing sevens until you establish a point. Then use a standard right side set while playing the DC. Wait until you have three numbers established on the DC and then switch back to an all-sevens set? (Provided of course that your toss has been on-axis).
"Take the Money and Run...."
- Steve Miller Band
- Steve Miller Band
Re: Darksider's Ball - GAC?
I've seen guys play similar to that. The seven gives you an added profit on the PL on the Come Out. The key on this is to have enough influence that you can toss a higher-than-normal number of sevens in order to capitalize on the lay bets. If you throw a box number on the come out then you lose that lay bet. Having the Pass Line bet allows you to take sufficient odds on that bet to recoup what you lost on the come out. But according to your strategy you're going to play the DC, establish three bets, then switch to the all sevens to shoot for a win. I'm not particularly fond of that idea, but I don't see why it wouldn't work - as long as you don't toss a lot of repeaters while attempting to establish your DC bets.
Anyone else have any thoughts on this?
Anyone else have any thoughts on this?
"Get in, get up, and get gone."
- Heavy
- Heavy
Re: Darksider's Ball - GAC?
A few months ago at the little riverboat that is closest to me I tried the lay $180 across on comeouts and then slide the survivors into place or buy bets after the point was established. Yes, I know I was giving up extra juice on the 4 and 10 but I was trying to keep it simple for the dealers. Nonetheless, I thought we were going to have a shift change before the dealers finally figured out what "lay 180 across" meant and what the vig was.
If you decide to employ such a play I would recommend finding tables with very experienced crews.
If you decide to employ such a play I would recommend finding tables with very experienced crews.
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Bankerdude80
- Posts: 1895
- Joined: Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:05 pm
Re: Darksider's Ball - GAC?
I should have added: " take the remaining lay bets down once the point was established..." then play the DC...etc.
Good advice mssthis1.
Good advice mssthis1.
"Take the Money and Run...."
- Steve Miller Band
- Steve Miller Band
Re: Darksider's Ball - GAC?
When making this bet - even with experienced dealers - you'll often have to explain it the first time. The correct bet, I belive, is $190 across - not $180. If they collect the commission up front then it's $194 across. Simply tell them you want to Lay $194 across - then point at the four and say Lay $41 - then point at the five and say Lay $31 - then point at the six and say Lay $25 - then wave at the "uptown numbers" and say "and do the same on the eight, nine, and ten. If the casino does NOT collect the commission up front then you're going to Lay $190 across. The same point and tell technique should work.
"Get in, get up, and get gone."
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DarthNater
- Posts: 2135
- Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:01 pm
- Location: Vegas, Baby!
Re: Darksider's Ball - GAC?
Count me in for the Darksider's Ball !
I remember once at the Rio, (I forget who was there and which event weekend), three of us turned the entire table into darkside shooting. I wish I still had the trip report, but alas, its been lost in the ether. Anyway, we three were betting dark with odds and there was something like 8 PSOs in a row to reinforce the correctness of betting the DP. Pass line guys were cussing. Passersby were raising their hands in disgust. I personally taught two guys how to bet DP - one was a black chip guy, he loved it. The table filled with converts, actually cheering each seven out. The dealers and bosses were mystified. The dice travelled around the table quickly, multiple cycles.......
It lasted about an hour - total blast!! Can't wait!
D.N8r
I remember once at the Rio, (I forget who was there and which event weekend), three of us turned the entire table into darkside shooting. I wish I still had the trip report, but alas, its been lost in the ether. Anyway, we three were betting dark with odds and there was something like 8 PSOs in a row to reinforce the correctness of betting the DP. Pass line guys were cussing. Passersby were raising their hands in disgust. I personally taught two guys how to bet DP - one was a black chip guy, he loved it. The table filled with converts, actually cheering each seven out. The dealers and bosses were mystified. The dice travelled around the table quickly, multiple cycles.......
It lasted about an hour - total blast!! Can't wait!
D.N8r
Your lack of faith in The Force disturbs me, Commander.......
Re: Darksider's Ball - GAC?
Darth: A couple years ago at the RIO I was playing the DP and the guy next to me looked at my bet and said "you're no fun, bet against the house like us" I looked at him and said "I don''t feel losing like all you guys are is fun" A couple shooters later he was on the don't side also.
Heavy: Yes, lay $190.00 across is the proper bet. The joint I was at rarely sees anything more complex than a $30.00 six or eight so I was trying to make things as simple as possible. The vig is all over the map depending on whether the house counts each bet individually or not. One of the local joints charges $4.00 total if you bet a $50.00 buy four and then a $50.00 buy ten yet they charge $5.00 if you bet both at the same time.
Heavy: Yes, lay $190.00 across is the proper bet. The joint I was at rarely sees anything more complex than a $30.00 six or eight so I was trying to make things as simple as possible. The vig is all over the map depending on whether the house counts each bet individually or not. One of the local joints charges $4.00 total if you bet a $50.00 buy four and then a $50.00 buy ten yet they charge $5.00 if you bet both at the same time.
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DarthNater
- Posts: 2135
- Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:01 pm
- Location: Vegas, Baby!
Re: Darksider's Ball - GAC?
A month ago, I watched an interesting DP strategy unfold, off strip. A fellow was playing a negative progression. His unit was $70. Unlike the CTSL, he does not wait for a pass, but immediately bets the DP, though the unitized progression is similar. He starts at $70 DP, if the shooter sevens-out; he'd do $70 on the next shooter, etc. However if the shooter made the point, or knocked him down with a 7 or eleven, then he would go to $150 with no hedges. If the $150 is knocked off, then his next bet was $290 ($70 + $150 + another $70). Then if that got knocked, the next was $580 ($70+$150+290 + another $70 to net $70). He actually won on the $580 twice.
We chatted briefly after, his win goal is $400, i.e. 6 hits of $70. He told me it was rare that he had to bet the $580 twice; and said he was prepared for one more cycle at $1160. He claimed that one out of ten buyins goes awry and he loses what would total $2250. He does not chart. While I'm not willing to operate at that level for $70 gain, it got me thinking.
So been wargaming it and my result is about one out of eight buy-ins crash. So, last weekend I tried it, live, at a couple of cool trending tables at a scaled down $7 vice $70 with a goal to get the six hits - and it worked well, never past $29 on the DP. What I like best is there's no odds laying. No laying of $40 to win $20 where the $40 seems to get knocked half the time. I see it as just another way to keep one foot in the game while waiting for the dice to cycle back to me, so thought I'd share this and see what everyone thinks.
D.N8r
We chatted briefly after, his win goal is $400, i.e. 6 hits of $70. He told me it was rare that he had to bet the $580 twice; and said he was prepared for one more cycle at $1160. He claimed that one out of ten buyins goes awry and he loses what would total $2250. He does not chart. While I'm not willing to operate at that level for $70 gain, it got me thinking.
So been wargaming it and my result is about one out of eight buy-ins crash. So, last weekend I tried it, live, at a couple of cool trending tables at a scaled down $7 vice $70 with a goal to get the six hits - and it worked well, never past $29 on the DP. What I like best is there's no odds laying. No laying of $40 to win $20 where the $40 seems to get knocked half the time. I see it as just another way to keep one foot in the game while waiting for the dice to cycle back to me, so thought I'd share this and see what everyone thinks.
D.N8r
Your lack of faith in The Force disturbs me, Commander.......
Re: Darksider's Ball - GAC?
I like your version better because when the inevitable multiple crashes in a short period show up you can go to a higher level to catch up once the table conditions warrant it. In the Vegas market it should work better because it's so easy to find another table. Here at home where it's an hour drive to another table I have found that after the first crash and burn on a negative progression it is wise to go to plan B or leave.
The system I have described before in this thread has never gone past the fifth bet.It isn't as aggressive as the guy you was watching since I increase odds $30.00 on a loss and reduce them $30.00 on a win and ignore naturals. $150.00 odds has been the highest level so far on a 10x odds game. On a 3/4/5 game it won't work as well because the flat bet increases at a much faster pace which makes naturals more painful. I tried modifying it to a 3 tiered progression, get all your money back on one win. That failed 2 trips in a row in the home market.
I plan on playing this way at least one session at the Cromwell with the 100x odds this weekend.
The system I have described before in this thread has never gone past the fifth bet.It isn't as aggressive as the guy you was watching since I increase odds $30.00 on a loss and reduce them $30.00 on a win and ignore naturals. $150.00 odds has been the highest level so far on a 10x odds game. On a 3/4/5 game it won't work as well because the flat bet increases at a much faster pace which makes naturals more painful. I tried modifying it to a 3 tiered progression, get all your money back on one win. That failed 2 trips in a row in the home market.
I plan on playing this way at least one session at the Cromwell with the 100x odds this weekend.