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### Why not skip the come out roll and just lay the point?

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 12:11 pm
Sorry if discussed previously but I don't venture into this section of the form as I am not a dark side player but this thought popped in my head.

If the biggest down side of the Don't player is the come out roll, why not skip it and only lay the point so the odds are always in your favor.

Granted if shooting you must place the initial bet but one could always pass the dice and do this bet.

### Re: Why not skip the come out roll and just lay the point?

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 1:03 pm
Could be a couple reasons. Laying the pt. costs you more. \$10 table you have to lay \$41 on the 10 or 4 to get \$20..or \$31 on the 5 and 9. So you have a bigger outlay. You can simply play a DC or DP for \$10 bucks and collect even money. And there isn't a guaranteed security laying numbers as you can get knocked off. But it's a very good bet if the cirumstances are right. \$5 Bill does pretty good with lay bets often after an eight count..

### Re: Why not skip the come out roll and just lay the point?

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 1:53 pm
Oh, so if the point is 4 and you lay \$20 you actually get \$10?
I was thinking that laying the 4 for \$20 would get you \$20. Was not aware that laying a number actually is the odds bet.
Now that makes sense.

### Re: Why not skip the come out roll and just lay the point?

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:04 pm
Still, you have stumbled onto the core play of my old pal Dicetrkkr. He'd by-pass the come-out game and watch for an indicator (and boy did he have a list of them) that the seven was about to show. Then he's jump out and lay the point for big \$\$\$.

### Re: Why not skip the come out roll and just lay the point?

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:15 pm
LetsPlayCraps wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 1:53 pm
Oh, so if the point is 4 and you lay \$20 you actually get \$10?
I was thinking that laying the 4 for \$20 would get you \$20. Was not aware that laying a number actually is the odds bet.
Now that makes sense.
That's correct LPC. Lay bets pay the inverse of the equivalent buy (or free odds) bets. So payouts on lays for 4 or 10 pay 1 for 2, for 5 or 9 pays 2 for 3 and for 6 or 8 pays 5 for 6. Not counting the vig, of course.

### Re: Why not skip the come out roll and just lay the point?

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 3:50 pm
22Inside wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:15 pm
LetsPlayCraps wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 1:53 pm
Oh, so if the point is 4 and you lay \$20 you actually get \$10?
I was thinking that laying the 4 for \$20 would get you \$20. Was not aware that laying a number actually is the odds bet.
Now that makes sense.
That's correct LPC. Lay bets pay the inverse of the equivalent buy (or free odds) bets. So payouts on lays for 4 or 10 pay 1 for 2, for 5 or 9 pays 2 for 3 and for 6 or 8 pays 5 for 6. Not counting the vig, of course.
NO. You still have to pay the juice, which is 5% so you have to lay \$21 to win \$10.
Second point: You can or cannot skip the CO and then go thru C/DC and then lay the point w/o the juice. The point is then a wash on the flat.
Example: Place equal bet on C/DC, shooter throws a 10. Both bets travel to the 10 where you then lay \$20 odds to win \$10.
Shooter hits the 10. You lose the DC bet plus the odds, \$30. BUT you win \$10 on the Come bet, so all you lost was the odds bet.
Now, Shooter rolls a 10. Both the C/DC travel to the 10. You lay \$20 to win \$10. Shooter rolls a seven. You lose the C bet but win the DC Odds bet for \$10, plus the flat DC for \$10. Dealer hands you \$20 for the DC bet and win and hands you \$30 Odss win and Odds bet.
So, folks play this way to skip the 5% juice. I have played it many time with one change. IF the shooter thru a 6 or 8, I would pick up the DC and leave the C bet. On the other four numbers, layed the odds. 6/5 was just not worth it to me, I like longer odds. I would not take odds on the 6 or 8 for the same reason.

### Re: Why not skip the come out roll and just lay the point?

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 4:03 pm
On my last trip I played this way. I decided I am going to continue with it. Until a shooter beats me, I am laying the point against them. If he knocks me off, I will wait to the next shooter, or place the 6 and 8, after he comes out again. I had 5 or so wins in a row doing this. During that span I would of been about even, just playing the Don't with the come out 7's.

I am also considering laying all the numbers for the comeout roll only. Worst case, I lose \$41. If a seven shows I win \$120, and there are plenty of times there are more than one comeout 7.

Funny story. I laid the 8 against a randy. Within a 3 roll span, someone bought in, during the roll, the dice went off the table, someone got yelled at for having there hands over the table, and the cocktail waitress came by. So I am thinking this has to be a 7 out. The next roll, the dice hit a bunch of chips.....definitely going to be a 7. Winner 8! Grrrrrr

### Re: Why not skip the come out roll and just lay the point?

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 5:59 pm
letsPlayCraps wrote,
Oh, so if the point is 4 and you lay \$20 you actually get \$10?
I havent found any place that would let me lay for 20, they require 40 even on a 5 dollar table.

r_ventura_23 wrote,
The next roll, the dice hit a bunch of chips.....definitely going to be a 7. Winner 8! Grrrrrr
this is what seems to happen to me ever time try to venture to dont side.

### Re: Why not skip the come out roll and just lay the point?

Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:21 am
I was going to say the same thing. Never encountered a table yet that allowed a \$21 lay bet on the 10 or 4. They start at \$41 no four, no ten. My play is DC after the CO roll+1. DC travels to 8 or 6, I will lay \$18 in back for \$15. 3 rolls and no 7 brings the bet down on lack of number rolls or switched if the shooter is now hitting all inside numbers but my don't bet. So, for example, no 6 goes to place the 6.

### Re: Why not skip the come out roll and just lay the point?

Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:39 am
I've seen guys in Mississippi Lay the four or ten for \$21. I just never saw the point in it. Instead of paying a 5% vig you're voluntarily paying 10%. That's just stupid IMHO.

### Re: Why not skip the come out roll and just lay the point?

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:48 pm
I have started laying the 9 for \$61 at the comeout and use to hedge my 6/8 for \$18 apiece, hit one or 2 6/8 within 3 rolls and pull all down and not risk the 9. If 9 hits, lay another \$91 to win \$60, most of the time a 7 shows before a second 9. If 2nd 9 hits, layoff the shooter for the lay. My goal is to hedge 1 or 2 hits on the 6/8. It is also nice to win those comeout 7. Almost all shooters where i go are randoms.

### Re: Why not skip the come out roll and just lay the point?

Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:03 pm
SHOOTITALL wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 3:50 pm
22Inside wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:15 pm
LetsPlayCraps wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 1:53 pm
Oh, so if the point is 4 and you lay \$20 you actually get \$10?
I was thinking that laying the 4 for \$20 would get you \$20. Was not aware that laying a number actually is the odds bet.
Now that makes sense.

So, folks play this way to skip the 5% juice. I have played it many time with one change. IF the shooter thru a 6 or 8, I would pick up the DC and leave the C bet. On the other four numbers, layed the odds. 6/5 was just not worth it to me, I like longer odds. I would not take odds on the 6 or 8 for the same reason.
I don't ever pick up a DC that has successfully traveled. If you have a C/DC go to 6/8 and don't like your DC there, then use it to "protect" your odds on the Come - or add extra odds. Keep as many options as you can; you never know, an energy draining event might make you take OFF your come bet odds (or want to move them to the DC), so stay as flexible as you can, D.N8r

### Re: Why not skip the come out roll and just lay the point?

Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:16 pm
in that regard, when you do a DC, you should probably do it for \$13 on a \$10 table. So it moves to the 6 or 8 and you place \$12. You make a buck either way if the number loses or wins. That is..if you are nervous about those easily hit numbers.
A \$13 DC moves to a 5 or 9..it's even better. You place \$10. A seven shows it makes you \$3. Number hits you make \$1. And a ten and four! Wow..that is getting into big money with a \$13 DC and a \$10 place bet. I'm literally shaking over it.

### Re: Why not skip the come out roll and just lay the point?

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:59 pm
Thnick,
Sure that works, lots of times I'll do a \$12 DC in preps to do a OHCM play. Or a \$15 DP can work too. Lots of choices, just remember that DP has to get past the Sheriff & the Deputy. Other times when I'm at a \$25 table, I'll play a \$26 DP - when it wins, I toss the extra dollar to the dealer. Darkside guys never toke them, always surprises them, D.N8r