Dave's System

Queue the Imperial March. DarthNater is in the house. Welcome to Heavy's Wrong Way Craps forum - where the discussions focus on the Dark Side of casino craps. You can bet our resident expert, DarthNater, has answers. If he doesn't, there are plenty of other Dark Siders who normally stand quietly down at the end of the table who will be more than willing to chime in. Not sure about making Don't Come Bets? Unsure about Lay Bets, and Laying Odds? Never heard of the One Hit - Can't Miss? Wouldn't know a Hybrid Play from a Zee-Donk? You've come to the right place. You'll find all that - plus Dark Side strategies for Dice Influencers - and MORE! Come on in.

Moderators: 220Inside, DarthNater

Post Reply
User avatar
$5Bill
Posts: 1321
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:31 pm

Dave's System

Post by $5Bill » Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:15 pm

PART 1


Topic: "Dave's" system (Read 9,558 times)
2fist
Green Chip Member
***

Joined: Jun 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 30

"Dave's" system
« Thread Started on 9/11/05 at 22:13 »

Hello to all,
Although I do frequent this website, this is my first actual post. I'm writing about a system that I learned from a guy who's retired and plays everyday. His name is "Dave" and thus I've named it "Dave's" system.

Here's how it works:

1) Dave buys in for $500 at a ten dollar table every morning (yes seven days a week) at the same casino when they open. "When they open?" It's a riverboat casino.

2) Without qualifying the table or the shooters whatsoever, Dave starts immediately betting the DP for $10 with no hedge at all.

3) Once a point is established, he lays the following odds: 6/8= $60 lay, 5/9= $75 lay, 4/10 = no lay. Yes, that's correct, he never, ever lays the four and ten.

4) After point is established he begins making $10 DC bets. When those travel, he places the odds above depending on what number it is. He never hedges with hardways, yo's, nothing.

5) He keeps on placing DC bets until he's either been hit a total of two times (DP or DC)from the same shooter, at which time he takes all remaining odds down, leaves flats working. Or the shooter sevens out.

6) IF the shooter knocks only one of his bets down and then sevens out, Dave goes right back up on him and starts over as if this is a new shooter.

7) He quits when he can see $200 profit in his rack. I've seen him do it in as little as three minutes and I've watched him for three hours. He, friends and the dealers have all attested that he has made money with this system the last 97 out of 100 or so days. I can honestly say that I have never seen him walk away a loser. However, I know there are times he's still playing long after I've left. In fact, just last week he told me after I left he had played another ten hours before calling it quits!

Other notes:
- If first $500 buy in is lost, he brings out another $500 and will keep doing so up to $3k. After he's in over $1k, he starts laying $180 against the 6/8, $150 against the 5/9 and still nothing ever against the four and ten. OF course, at those levels, his flat bets go up accordingly as this casino offers 10x's odds.

-Dave never shoots the dice himself and he only plays one session per day.

-No, the casino never gives him heat. In fact, they all like him as he's always sure to tip them before he leaves.

I have used this system and went twenty-four days in a row winning with the same $200 goal this past June-July. However, unlike Dave, I limit my losses to $1000 per day and won't go any deeper. He's up about $20k year to date so he can afford to go $3k deep and walk away still ahead.

No, I haven't ran this against any software, i.e. "RNG's". This is all live play with money on the line!

Anyone ever heard of this system? Thoughts?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Heavy
Administrator
*******

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,068

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #1 on 9/12/05 at 6:11 »

Hey 2fist -

First off, welcome to the board and thanks for jumping right in and posting Dave's System. Very interesting.

You surprised me with that no-lay on the four or ten. Most folks I know would play that strategy just the opposite of the way Dave plays it, laying maybe $200 on the four and ten and less on the inside numbers.

Actually, if you go strictly by the math it doesn't matter how much you lay as the free odds bet is a zero sum game over the long run. But hey - it sounds like it's working well in live play.

Personally, I don't like having more than two Don't bets up at a time. I feel like it's giving the shooter too many targets.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dylanfreak
Purple
*****

Joined: Apr 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,427
Location: West Memphis, Arkansas

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #2 on 9/13/05 at 4:23 »

I ran Daves System through 17 sessions of my recorded casino rolls and ended with a $620 profit.

I did it assuming a $5 DP laying $30 odds on a 6 and 8 , $45 odds on the 5 and 9 and no odds on the 4 and 10. I also did not stop at a loss limit or a win goal but just played the whole session of rolls.

I would take down the odds and quit making new wagers after any two losses which included losses to naturals as well as a number with the layed odds getting killed.

Out of the 17 sessions 11 ended positive and 6 ended negative.

A $620 profit is not bad at all.

Dylanfreak
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2fist
Green Chip Member
***


Joined: Jun 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 30

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #3 on 9/13/05 at 9:53 »

Dylan,
Thank you for the research. I'm just wondering what your results would have been if you did not count the naturals and elevens as a loss.

Dave doesn't count those as losses. He only counts a "hit" when either of his DP or DC bets are taken down. Also, as I said, if a shooter takes down only one of his bets before sevening out, he starts over completely with the same shooter.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dylanfreak
Purple
*****

Joined: Apr 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,427
Location: West Memphis, Arkansas

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #4 on 9/13/05 at 15:54 »

2fist

I`m not sure I understand "if a shooter takes down one bet before sevening out, he starts over with the same shooter".

I will try soon a $5 DP /DC laying $45 odds on 5 and 9 and $30 odds on 6 and 8 and only taking down odds if two wagers with odds layed have been killed

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2fist
Green Chip Member
***

Joined: Jun 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 30

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #5 on 9/13/05 at 21:04 »

Dylan,
In other words, what if we ran the numbers not counting losing on a natural or yo?

You said you ran the numbers counting these as losses in order to get to the two losses. He never counts those as losses. He only counts a shooter as hitting him twice when his DP's and DC's get knocked down.

The other thing is if a shooter has only hit one of those DP's or DC's once, and then sevens out, he starts over on that shooter the next come out fresh. In other words, as if he is a new shooter because he only hit one of his numbers.

It's an interesting system. It's worked for me. Enjoy.
2Fist

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dylanfreak
Purple
*****

Joined: Apr 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,427
Location: West Memphis, Arkansas

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #6 on 9/14/05 at 5:22 »

OK 2fist,

I think , I got it.

Dylanfreak
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
Bob Dylan for President (Like a Rollin` Stone)
shiraz
Green Chip Member
***


Joined: Oct 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 63

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #7 on 9/14/05 at 12:54 »

To: 2fist - Dave's system is interesting. Please explain what you said,"if a shooter takes down only one of his bets before sevening out, he starts over completely with the same shooter."
Supposing Dave has DP bet with 3 DC bets, all layed with odds, and the shooter makes the point, which means Dave lost his DP bet. Now what would be his next bet ?
Thanks - Sam.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

biffle
Black Chip Member
****


Joined: Jan 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 183
Location: Ohio

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #8 on 9/15/05 at 19:58 »

Wow,

I had to read this a few times over.

I've been playing a Dp, DC, DC, DC system for months now and to be honest laying odds on those numbers seems like suicide. As a matter of fact, when one of my bets establish a 6 or 8 I PLACE money on those numbers to hedge my bet so that it washes. If I establish the 5 or 9, I kinda get this 'oh shit' feeling. Ironically, I stopped laying odds on the 4 and 10 cause they kept hitting those too, so I guess I don't have any numbers, lmao.

I haven't run this against anything yet, and I like feedback that you've recieved so far, an if I get time I'll run this on my practice table and against Zumma. If someone wants to throw me some random pages (1 thorugh 279), I'll run it top down in Zumma until I get a session decision and give the results. I don't want to pick the pages to seem like I picked good ones or bad ones.

biffle

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2fist
Green Chip Member
***

Joined: Jun 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 30

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #9 on 9/16/05 at 11:11 »

Biffle,
I agree with you, when I first saw Dave palying this system, I thought he was nuts for laying the six and eight.

However, when I discussed this with Dave, his argument is that "the seven is the most powerful number on this board, in that it should statistically show up the most..."

Obviously there will be times when a table gets hot and that's where Dave and I differ. He will keep on playing as much as 8-12 hours to get his goal of $200. He'll also go deep into his pockets, laying the 6/8 for $180 and the 5/9 for $150!

I set a personal session limit of $1,000. All I can say is this thing works. Check it out and let me know what your research shows.

Thanks much,
2fist

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

shiraz
Green Chip Member
***

Joined: Oct 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 63

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #10 on 9/16/05 at 13:52 »

2FIST:
I am awaiting to get your answer about my quetion on the board.
Thanks - Sam.
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
hector
Guest

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #11 on 9/16/05 at 23:16 »

2fist, I shoot from the dont if the table is empty.( I usually open the table because I know the time it opens) Soon as a crowd gets in , I'll stop shooting when it's my turn unless the table gets a little warmer, I switch side. On the CF'ers, I'll make three DC and lay dble odds on all numbers, incl. the 4 & 10. , like Dave, I never play the prop.'s or the field unless the shooter is rolling goodies...When I shoot, I usually will 7-out on the 4th roll as I'm using my favor 7 out dice set. Sometimes, it will take longer so I switch to another grip ... Done pretty good so far. I buy in for $300 and start with $15 flat bets , If one of the my no. gets knock off, I'll replace it only once and wait for the final out come.Hector

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Green Chip Member
***

Joined: Jun 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 30

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #12 on 9/17/05 at 7:30 »

Shiraz,
The answer to your question is that he would put up another DP bet. Remember, he waits for a shooter to hit him twice. Whether it's one DC and a DP bet, whether it's two DP bets or two DC bets or any combination, doesn't matter.

He keeps putting up bets until his bets with lays have been knocked off twice. Again, naturals don't count and yo's on the DC don't count.

2fist

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bob
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****


Joined: Sept 2004
Gender: Male
Posts: 80
Location: Ohio

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #13 on 9/17/05 at 21:35 »

Just wanted to jump in here with a brief off- topic :

hector from Brazil:
It is literally amazing to see all the international persons on this Board and to communicate in the blink of an eye. My wife's cousin's son just married a gal from Ipanema, in Ipanema. They fell in love with her and your countrymen and women. However, I surmise you are from the US(?) or relate in good Americanese.

Please give us a rundown on how gambling is down there. Does your timezone correlate with one of ours, which one?

BIFFLE: A moniker with a bit of difference and maybe attitude.. I just was watching ESPN this morning and NASCAR standings and a name Biffle was in those standings. Any connection or relation?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

biffle
Black Chip Member
****


Joined: Jan 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 183
Location: Ohio

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #14 on 9/19/05 at 21:42 »

I ran Dave's System against 5 pages in Zumma. Certainly not an exhaustive study, but fun nonetheless. Since no one gave me 5 random pages like I asked, I started with page 20 (because page 1 is a horrible Don't player page trust me), and went every 20th page just to make sure I wouldn't run into the same shooter. Well, I certainly did not have that problem.

Four out of five (pages 20, 40, 60, and 100) won Dave's $200 win limit within 4 shooters so I stopped. The 5th one lost $500 after the 6th shooter (page 80) so I stopped there and did not go to Dave's $3000 loss limit (or the $1000 loss limit). Page 80 hit nearly every 6 and 8 that established, which usually happens to me.

Page 100 hit 5 7's in a row on the CO on shooter #3, but still won $70 on that shooter.

I modified this post to include the actual totals.

Page 20 +210 after 2 shooters
Page 40 +360 after 3 shooters
Page 60 +210 after 3 shooters
Page 80 -550 after 6 shooters
Page 100 +200 after 4 shooters

Total for 5 'sessions' +430 in what amounted to about 1.5 hours of play.


If someone wants to give me some more random pages, I'll run them.

Bob, I'm not sure what the attitude comment was, but I hope I wasn't negative to you or 2fist, if so then SORRY!!

biffle
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


scout
Black Chip Member
****


Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 152
Location: MS Gulf Coast

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #15 on 9/21/05 at 9:31 »
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Biffle,
Interesting results on Dave's system!
2Fist,
Since you've played this live, and have seen "Dave" play as well, have either of you reached the loss limit frequently? It reads that Dave has a loss limit of $3k and you have it set at $1k. It appears you might be on to something with the % win at 97/100 for Dave and you at 24 consecutive wins too! That added with Biffle's tally is impressive.

Best regards,
scout

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2fist
Green Chip Member
***

Gender: Male
Posts: 30

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #16 on 9/21/05 at 10:09 »
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Scout,
I have personally never seen Dave lose. He told me he has been to his loss limit 3 times out of the last hundred plus sessions. I marvelled at this, but have confirmed those claims with dealers whom I have known for years.

I personally have hit my loss limit about half a dozen times over this past summer. One thing about this particular system I have noticed in researching my session results is that whenever I was in a session over an hour and a half, I lost.

On the hand, I reach my goal within fifty minutes or less 90% of the time! The system isn't flawless as no system is when going against a negative expectation game, but I do enjoy it. It's been the best system I have played for don'ts and I've played many.

2-fist

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

scout
Black Chip Member
****

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 152
Location: MS Gulf Coast

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #17 on 9/21/05 at 10:13 »
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2Fist,
Thanks for the reply. Is your goal also $200? If it is, hitting $200 in less than a hour 90% of the time is phenominal!

Best regards,
scout

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

bigmikej
White Chip Member
*

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #18 on 10/30/05 at 0:41 »

Hi Guys;
Good thoughts from every one.
What is key to making this type of play is that he is only risking $10 on the come out and then getting odd bets up that will yield $50.
I have mixed feelings about not laying the 4/10.........you have to win two to equal what you loose on one......on the 6/8, 5/9, just depends on how the dice are flowing....that is the luck aspect of the game.....the 7' on average will win 62%-66% of the time but again you loose more money than the amount you stand to win........so you need luck to beat the averages.
I guess that is why sometimes as 2Fists says that sometimes he makes his nut in minutes and sometimes it takes hours>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.mikej

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

scout
Black Chip Member
****


Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 152
Location: MS Gulf Coast

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #19 on 11/3/05 at 9:39 »

2fist,

Your comment about hitting your goal 90% of the time within a hour rings clear. I spoke with an individual who managed a casino in LV a while back that confirms your experience. He stated that most wins are determined within an hour.

Looking back at my trials and tribulations at the tables, I should take note of it. I remember reading somewhere the percentage of time a player will recovery vs. amount of time (not $) played. The findings were shocking!

I believe the MP eludes to the like in an article regarding a bad trip and his loss limit being around 50% of bankroll. If memory serves me correctly, his finding were to limit his loss limit significantly below 50% of BR.

Any case, I hope you have continues success at the table with this play.

Best regards,
scout

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2fist
Green Chip Member
***

Joined: Jun 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 30

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #20 on 11/3/05 at 10:38 »

Scout,
Here we are in the beginning of November and I thought I would update you.

Last month, I played twenty-one days and won eighteen of those days. The three days I lost totalled $1,680. The eighteen days that I won netted $3,915.

I can also say that my wins are still almost always under an hour. I agree with what your source said, no matter what system you're using, anytime you're there longer than an hour, you're probably not going to win. There was one session in the middle of the month where I played three minutes. Of course the temptation is there to say, "well, maybe I can keeep going and win another two hundred."

I honestly think it's the ability to walk away after a goal is reached that keeps people ahead and not giving all of it or more back.

Good fortunes to you,
2fist

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

scout
Black Chip Member
****


Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 152
Location: MS Gulf Coast

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #21 on 11/3/05 at 11:04 »

2fist,

I believe your right! I had that conversation yesterday at the tables. Most players agreed with the discipline. It's following it, however, that counts. The same players agreed that they don't follow their instinct, and leave, when their goal is reached.

Congrats on the successes!

Best regards,
scout

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

biffle
Black Chip Member
****


Joined: Jan 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 183
Location: Ohio

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #22 on 11/7/05 at 20:19 »

2fist,

I ran some more tests, but first a question: have you or Dave ever hedged the hard 6 or 8? In my runs on my table, about 30% of the time that they hit, after establishing, they hit hard. This seems to be an extrodinarily high percentage as they do not seem to hit that much for Just Win, but I was just curious. Anything over 10% is a net win on that hedge, plus keeps the bankroll running.

I ran 5 sessions on my table today and won 4 and lost 1.

+200 even
+265
+220
+320
-510

I also ran pages 25,45,65,85, and 105 in Zumma. Unfortunately, pages 25 and 105 were not good pages. Now, keep in mind that even though Dave doesn't chart (neither do I), I start at the top of these pages with the first shooter and work down.

Page 105 starts like this:

First shooter 7 7 7

Second 11 7 7 3 11

Third 11 7

Nine naturals in the first 13 CO's, ouch. Even though it's only $10 a pop, that set the tone for the page.

Page 85, in case anyone is interested, was unreal. I was down $415 twelve shooters in and went on a tear. Starting with shooter 1283 in Zumma, it is one of the best Don't sequences you could ever hope for, especially if you are a DP multiple DC player (like Just Win is). We are not just talking Point-Seven out. These guys rolled almost all the box numbers each time without repeating them and THEN sevened out. I'd be crying if I ever saw that live.

Shooter 1284 went 6 10 4 5 8 7

Shooter 1285 went 6 10 9 8 4 7

I've had those individually, but never back to back.

2fist let us know how you are doing, I may try this live sometime soon. 85% is better than 70% ;)

biffle

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2fist
Green Chip Member
***

Joined: Jun 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 30

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #23 on 11/7/05 at 21:30 »

Biffle,
Thanks for the input. The answer to your question about hedging the 6/8 with a hardway wager is "no". We never hedge any bets. When I first met Dave, he was really clear about not giving into those middle bets. Too much edge for the house.

I'm comfortable with my playing this system, because unlike Dave, I do chart the table before I start. I didn't always do that, but the past several weeks I have been. It's worked better for me.

Before, it seemed like many sessions started out with me being down $100-200 and then relying on the system to come all the way back and then some. I don't like sitting through those draw-downs. Now it seems like my sessions are getting shorter and shorter. Yesterday I played eight minutes and today was nineteen minutes.

Good fortunes,
2fist
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2fist
Green Chip Member
***

Joined: Jun 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 30

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #24 on 12/5/05 at 9:43 »

Just wanted to post an update. Dave has stepped up his play in recent weeks. He's now laying the following amounts using a $25 flat bet:
6/8 = $240 lay
5/9 = $300 lay
4//10 = still no lay

His win goal is now $500. Although he's still winning, I want to add that two dealers told me a week ago he was down $9k at one point in his session. He battled all the way back and walked away a winner after playing fourteen hours! I'm still playing the system the way I have. I played eighteen sessions the month of November and won sixteen times. To this day, I have never won so consistently with a system.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

scout
Black Chip Member
****


Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 152
Location: MS Gulf Coast

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #25 on 12/5/05 at 15:18 »

Hi 2fist,

Congrats on your success! 16/18 is very impressive. I think I would have to stick with the play as well! I hope Dave continues his march to success too.

His change to a higher goal is interesting, especially with his loss reaching $9k momentarily. He certainly has discipline, playing 14 hours to recover!

Thanks for the update 2fist.

Best regards,
scout

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

nicklemidnight
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****

Joined: May 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 54

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #26 on 12/6/05 at 19:44 »

2fist:
Interesting that Dave has stepped up his play. With his lays going from $60 and $75 level to the $240 and $300 level, has he likewise increased his loss limit? Has his loss limit, too, increased four times, from $3,000 to $12,000? -- NICKLEMIDNIGHT

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

biffle
Black Chip Member
****

Joined: Jan 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 183
Location: Ohio

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #27 on 12/6/05 at 21:27 »
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I stopped by to read a post or two because I still wish everyone good health and good luck. I still have not played and still have no intention to.

I wanted to add two things here. I still belive that Dave's system wins just as 2fist says it does, but I also had to post my own actual results (for my own justification?).

On a side note, I am dealing on the side for a local company called Jackpot Games out of Cleveland that does parties and casino nights. I deal BJ, Craps, and Hold Em, but I try to get Craps when I can. Although I am not running anything on my practice table anymore, I 'run' tests during the casino events. If I cannot make the bets myself, I actually give a player a bankroll and have him make the bets (teach them how to play Dave's way) without telling them it's Dave's system. Anyway, the results speak for themselves. The method wins over 90% of the time as usual....

Except when I played it live in a casino. I played it exactly as 2fist does and I won 6 and lost 8. Every time I played they would hit my numbers like a sniper shooting ducks in a pond. I posted about this before, so that's all I'll say about that.

I will say that I had the idea about progressing up as Dave did because eventually it does have the potential to make up the losses in a huge hurry, IF you are lucky enough....but a $9k risk for a $500 win? wow.

I guess that's why he is still playing and I am not.

biffle

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2fist
Green Chip Member
***

Joined: Jun 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 30

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #28 on 12/7/05 at 8:05 »

Nickelmidnight,
Yes, Dave has equally pressed up his stop loss limit. For example, just yesterday I saw him at the casino and he had been playing three hours plus and was up $280. Dave has won alot of money this year playing this system.

He plays every single day. So although a $12k stop loss seems high, we have to take into account the fact that he's up six figures this year.

Biffle, believe me, the times when I do hit my stop loss limit for the session, I wish I had more to put down on the table to keep going. Part of me has seen this thing win so much and so consistently that I'm sure it would come back. However, I know that would throw all of the numbers off. I don't have Dave's bankroll and string winners all year to afford a $9k stop loss. Also, I don't think I could mentally handle seeing that kind of dough out there.

With what I've made this year using this system, I have decided to step it up to where Dave was when i met him:
6/8 = lay $60
5/9 = lay $75
stop loss $3k

I'm going to start this up the first of the new year. Of course, i'll keep updating progress or setbacks. Best wishes.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

nicklemidnight
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****


Joined: May 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 54

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #29 on 12/7/05 at 18:50 »

2fist:

The "brilliance" about the way Dave plays is his win goal. And in going to a $12,000 loss limit with a $500 win goal, it's BETTER than when he had a $3,000 loss limit and a $200 win goal.

John Patrick explains it on Page 27-28 of his "basic" book on craps. It's the concept of being willing to accept a very low win goal in relation to what you're willing to risk. As Patrick puts it:

"Have you ever taken $100 to the casino and gotten ahead $10. Of course you have. Many times. OK, if it's so easy to win $10 with $100, then it should be just as easy to win $100 with $1,000, or $1,000 with $10,000. It's the exact same percentage. " . . . The problem is you don't want to accept a $10 profit (risking $100), because that's beneath you . . . "

So true, Mr. Patrick! Few of us are willing to settle for "just 10 percent." But let's analyse what Dave is doing. When he had a daily win goal of $200 and had a loss limit of $3,000, Dave was comfortable with winning just 6.66 percent of what he was willing to risk. Think about it, that $200 was equal to just 6.66 percent!

Now that Dave has gone to a $500 daily win goal and a loss limit of $12,000, he's cut it even further! A $500 win goal as a percentage of a $12,000 loss limit is being willing to settle for just 4.16 percent!!! Good grief, a piddlin' 4.16 percent! John Patrick continues (on Page 28):

"Go a step further. If it's so easy to win $10 with $100, then it ought to be a snap to win $5 with that same $100. That's a 5 percent return. Using that same percentage table, a minuscule 5 percent return, which is very easy to reach, increase your bankroll to $5,000. Play until you get that 5 percent goal. That is $250 profit per day. Suppose you went to the casino 200 times a year. That's $50,000 profit, taking just 5 percent returns."

I give a "tip of my hat" to Dave, and I know John Patrick would be very pleased with this application of his concept. That low percentage is the "brilliance" of what Dave is doing. And it's another confirmation of the wisdom of John Patrick and his books. -- NICKLEMIDNIGHT

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

kmikefree
White Chip Member

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #30 on 12/7/05 at 20:23 »

AMEN

How true you are nicklemidnight. I have been gambling
only a couple years now, but in the early days, before I realized it was me against myself not me against them, everytime I would lose, I would always be up 20-50% or more and then the stupidity would kick in. Now I try not to gamble as much, and just play when the odds are in my favor.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2fist
Green Chip Member
***

Joined: Jun 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 30

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #31 on 12/7/05 at 21:49 »

Nickemidnight,
Yes, I totally agree with what you're saying and this truth came out immediately when Dave first gave me this system back in June of this year.

How many people go to the casino with $100 looking to make $500? Or they go with $200 looking to make $1000? Then again, like you point out, if we asked everyone at a craps table how many were there with $500 would walk away with a $50 profit? Not many. Dave has totally changed the way I think about gambling this year.

Look at Wall street. How many money managers would be happy with a 5% return every day they traded stocks? Are you kidding, there would be a mob of people and investment bankers trying to hire that savvy individual.

Think about it, with a properly bankrolled strategy, you could earn percentages like that just about every time you hit the casino.

I can attest that I've been using this system since June and have used a $500 stop with a $100 win goal and I'm up substantially. First year I can say that ever in my gambling forays.

Best wishes!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

nicklemidnight
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****


Joined: May 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 54

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #32 on 12/8/05 at 6:45 »

2fist:

Your kind words are appreciated, but John Patrick is the person who deserves the praise. We owe so much to that man! What I would give to spend a day at the tables with John Patrick!


May I ask a further question or two regarding your observations of Dave and his system? When Dave has a $500 buy-in loss, does he take a break and leave the table, OR, does he buy in again right away for another $500?

Same question, different twist: When Dave has to buy in for another $500, does he stay at the same table (continuing play with or without a break), OR, does he go to a different table? -- NICKLEMIDNIGHT
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2fist
Green Chip Member
***

Joined: Jun 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 30

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #33 on 12/8/05 at 9:29 »

Nickelmidnight,
Please don't take my last post as an attempt to steal thunder from John Patrick. I have thoroughly enjoyed his books and his advance craps book is my favorite all time read on the game. I was simply trying to further drive the point home.

To answer your question, no, Dave doesn't walk away from the table when he loses an initial buy-in. In fact, he doesn't walk away with any subsequent losses and buy-ins. About the only think I've seen Dave do differently when buying in over and over is switch tables at some point. All of this is rooted in his thinking that the current streak will soon change and he doesn't want to miss it.

Also, Dave's stepped up play in recent weeks has him buying in initially for $2k. If he loses this first buy-in, he'll re-load for another $2k.

Good gaming.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

nicklemidnight
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****

Joined: May 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 54

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #34 on 12/10/05 at 10:42 »

Oh, certainly I wasn't thinking you were trying to steal any thunder from John Patrick! Sorry if my words may have come across that way!! I was just expressing my respect for John Patrick.

Let me dig a little deeper about how Dave plays. You indicate Dave DOES switch tables at some point after, apparently, two or more buy-ins. Please get inside his head and ask him whether he has specific criteria to make the decision to switch tables. This is very important to me, as I have begun "testing" Dave's System in Las Vegas (at a reduced level of betting). -- NICKLEMIDNIGHT

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

caveman
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 14
Location: Ocean City, NJ

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #35 on 12/11/05 at 22:19 »

I can't wait to try this system. I, too, have always had reservations about laying odds on the 6 and 8, but the results have convinced me to give it a go.

NM I can't agree w/you more on Patrick's quote. That is one of the major things I have taken away from John's books. The other key item I learned from John is that the player must have the discipline to stick with BOTH the win goal and the loss limit. Percentages, multiples and all that stuff goes right out the window if the discipline is not there. I know NM has it and it is obvious that both Dave and 2fist have it also. Keep it up guys.


Happy Birthday, biffle.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Knowledge is Power
hotshooter
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****

Joined: May 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 210

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #36 on 12/26/05 at 16:48 »

I did a ran a Wincraps simulation of Dave's System.

The following are my results After 194 rolls and a starting bankroll of $500:

Bankroll:

High: $845
Current: $845
Low: $125
Average: $558


Bets Decided: 169

Bets Won: 95
Bets Lost: 74
Net Win: 21 12.43%



HS

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2fist
Green Chip Member
***

Joined: Jun 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 30

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #37 on 1/3/06 at 10:07 »

Happy New Year to all,
In keeping with consistency, I did want to update my progress using Dave's system. This past December, I did not use the system as much as I have been. I played Dave's system for eight sessions and won seven of them.

Winning session profits: $1585
Losing session loss: <$448>
Net Profit: $1137

However, as I've stated on Irishsetter's board, I'm making it my goal to rely strictly on my own shooting and cease betting the table. I did make alot of money using Dave's methods this past year, but I know I would have made alot more betting on just me. Many of you have told me that you've ran a number of tests and you can see that the system makes money overall.

This is true... it does make money. One of the trade-offs is you may find yourself in a negative equity session for hours sometimes. Also, the fluctuations in your bankroll are quite volatile. I feel that my own shooting will yield positive results with alot less negative volatility.

Best wishes for 2006,
2Fist


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
caveman
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline

[avatar]


[email] [send pm]

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 14
Location: Ocean City, NJ

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #38 on 1/4/06 at 8:26 » [Quote]
Regarding "Dave's System" I took a bit of cash to the casino this past week for a trial run. I found that the pucker factor of placing DP bets with odds on every roll was a bit too much for me, plus it strained my meager bankroll. I felt like I was giving the shooter too many targets to hit. So, I went with the DP with either $30 odds on the 6/8 or $45 odds on the 5/9. I then went with two DC wagers with odds if the number was a 5,6,8 or 9, no odds on the 4 and 10. This gave me three don't side bets. If I lost two wagers to any single shooter - DP or DC, no more bets on this shooter. (this saved me from the guillotine on a CFr's 3-pass hand)

I limited myself to the two DC bets both for personal pucker factor reasons and that most shooters will seven out within 3-5 rolls. The system was working well. The one aspect I do like about the don't side is that ALL don't bets are paid upon the roll of one number - the seven. On the do side each number must be rolled to make it pay, so multiple rolls are necessary to have all pets pay.

I did modify the plan a bit in that when it came my turn to shoot, I placed a DP bet and after the point was established, placed the 6 and 8. I then set the 3V and tried to roll as many sixes and eights as possible. I think a steep regression here would also be a good thing. Then if I made my point all I would lose is the $10 DP bet which is offset by the winnings from the 6 & 8. Should the seven appear, I lose the 6 & 8 bets (which should be paid for by now) and win the DP wager.

The session went well. The table was so cold at the start, I reached my win goal on the frst two shooters. However, this being a test run I decided to hang around at least until I could shoot and see how it went. Unfortunately, three of the next four shooters had winning hands so my bankroll was dwindling. The last shooter made three pass line winners. Fortunately the next three went 7-out without much fanfare. When I got the dice it was $10 DP with $18 6 and 8 on a point of 9. Hit the 8 then a regression to $12 6 & 8. All-in-all a 15 roll hand with three paying numbers before the 7.

Color coming in.

Session stats:
Charted for a cold table
Buy-in = $200 (yea that's low but it's all I had that day)
Loss Limit = $100
Win Goal = $50
Session low= -$95
Color in $265
Time at the table 45 minutes


Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
Knowledge is Power
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
biffle
Black Chip Member
****
member is offline



[yim]
[send pm]

Joined: Jan 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 183
Location: Ohio

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #39 on 1/10/06 at 21:28 » [Quote]
Good job Caveman. Adjustments are a funny thing, they'll look great one session and terrible the next, but thats craps. Keep up the good work and the wins.

2fist - you mentioned on 12-7 that you were stepping up your play to match Dave's original method, meaning a re-buy after a $500 loss and so on. In you last post, though, it looks as though your one loss matched your regular $500 loss limit and then you stopped (as you had been doing most of the year). Are you back to the $500 buy in with that as the stop loss, or are you going up the Dave's original $3k loss limit at all?

Also, you mentioned that you only bet on yourself, but I did not see anywhere whether you said that you set for the 7 at any particular time. I do when I get one or two bets established, but I was curious if you did.

biffle
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2fist
Green Chip Member
***
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Jun 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 30

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #40 on 1/10/06 at 22:10 » [Quote]
Biffle,
When I posted that message on December 7th, those were my intentions. However, I went out to Vegas the second week of December and decided on taking advantage of the $2 minimum and 100x's odds game at the (casino name deleted per ProBoards TOS). Shooting from the do's, it took me about a day to get dialed in, but I never looked back. It got me to thinking about all of the money I've waisted on other shooters and betting the table. I realized that even though I made money with Dave's system, I could have made more if I didn't bet the table at all and just relied on my own shooting.

Then, I read MP's total series on "regression avoids depression", and that was the icing on the cake... no more betting on the table and other shooters.

Thus, I did not step up my play level at all using Dave's system. As of the first of this year, I have not played Dave's system one time.

When I bet on myself now, I shoot from the do's. I have not bet anyone else. I must say this takes even more discipline than I needed when I was playing Dave's system. So far, I am doing well, making the same or more than I was playing Dave's system, but my bankroll does not go through the wringer of ups and downs it did before. In fact, I'm pretty close to even most of these sessions now. Good luck with it.
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
biffle
Black Chip Member
****
member is offline



[yim]
[send pm]

Joined: Jan 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 183
Location: Ohio

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #41 on 1/12/06 at 22:53 » [Quote]
So...I'm not the only one that gives up on methods that win over 70% of the time (well over 90% in your case), lol.

I get the regression angle. I would probably do something similar if I didn't have to drive 4 hours each way to play. You never said how long your sessions are now, or what your profits/wins/losses are (not that you need to, I was just curious). It's just that you were winning 95% of the time, by my calculations, in mostly under an hour. I obviously was as frustrated as anyone by CF/RR's, and some of my trips (remember I was taking 2 days away from my family sometimes) would end with very little profit, dead even, or even a loss or two. If I won 95% of my TRIPS at my win goal, I'd be much happier than I am now.

I'm curious to know what your win percentage is going to be, and I wish you luck, but we won't know for a while. I hope that you update us here as Dave's method seemed to have done very well for you.

Good Luck.

biffle

Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2fist
Green Chip Member
***
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Jun 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 30

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #42 on 1/17/06 at 10:46 » [Quote]
Biffle,
I believe this game is all about evolution. We evolve as players and hopefully utilize the things we've learned to help us to become even better at a game where few succeed in the long-run.

It's true, I was winning with Dave's system most of the time. However, I was getting tired of the ups and downs during the session with my bankroll. Now, my money is at risk less as it's only on the layout when I have the dice. I can go for larger gains now because the volatility in my bankroll is at a much lower level.

In other words, where I was putting $500 (my 50% stop loss based on $1000 buy in) at risk to make a $100, I can now use that same $500 to generate $200-300!

"How do you do that?"

Well, I think you would agree that it's easier to make more money when you're coming from being down say $60-100 as opposed to being down $300-400. Not only that, but there's also the psychological factor - you can shoot better when you're down less or up than you can when you're down deep.

As you know, Dave's system at times can get you close to that stop loss quick! I had to rely on my own shooting many times to pull me out of the hole. Why go through all of that? Since playing this way, I have yet to have a session where I'm anywhere near my 50% stop loss. Knock on wood, I hope it continues, if it doesn't I'll adjust.

Don't get me wrong... Dave's system is still the best system I have played as far as playing a table. If I HAVE to play the table, that's the only system I will use, but I don't HAVE to play the table.

As far as session length, it varies now because I have to wait to get the dice. I've been averaging anywhere from four to eight hands. This can take anywhere from an hour at the tables to as long as two hours plus depending on table conditions.
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
theodoreandon
White Chip Member
*
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Sept 2005
Posts: 1

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #43 on 3/5/06 at 15:08 » [Quote]
Played "Dave's" system in Vegas last week. Bought in for $500.00 every time and followed it exactly. The only difference was that when I got up $200.00 I kept playing until 2 DP/DC bets were wacked then quit. In other words I rode the don't streak as long as possible. I left up $850.00 for the 2 days I was there.

Fantastic method - I will try it in St Louis next week also.
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Denver
White Chip Member
*
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #44 on 3/28/06 at 16:46 » [Quote]
So once a point is establised the play is to lay against all 4 numbers,or just the point if its 5/9 6/8, then 2 DC's with odds?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
nicklemidnight
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: May 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 54

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #45 on 4/12/06 at 10:17 » [Quote]
I fully understand why 2Fist has drifted away from using Dave's System. But I was wondering: How have others been doing using Dave's System? -- NICKLEMIDNIGHT
« Last Edit: 4/12/06 at 10:17 by nicklemidnight » Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2fist
Green Chip Member
***
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Jun 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 30

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #46 on 4/25/06 at 14:55 » [Quote]
NMidnight,
I actually did play Dave's system a week ago. I was with a buddy of mine, the $15 tables were full and I got bored. Now, this has happened many times since I stopped using Dave's system and started betting only on myself.

However, A fight had almost broke out between two dealers and two patrons. Then, there was a stick change, security was there, the whole deal. The table had been hot for an hour and it just went down like a sinking ship!

It got so bad, I would have been a fool not to capitalize on those conditions. So I played Dave's system, and boy was I glad I did! Like I said, $15 dollar table, so that was my flats, and I was playing $120 behind the 6/8, and $150 behind the 5/9. I had about $2k in chips on the rack when I started and I looked at my watch... 8:30pm.

By the time 9:05pm came around I was up $1200. Now normally I would have stopped several hundred dollars before that, but I decided to keep playing and see how far I could ride this ice cold table. My rule at that point was the first shooter to knock two of my bets down is my sign to color up.

10:22pm....
There had been a stick change and the energy started changing. One shooter hit two of my bets and after he had made his point, I colored out. By this time, I colored out for $4798. Thus it was a $2750 profit after tipping the crew the $48!

No, I'm not going back to playing this system like last summer. I will say that this goes to show again why Dave is enjoying retirement making $1400 per week playing craps!

Kindest regards.
« Last Edit: 4/25/06 at 14:59 by 2fist » Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
alfalcons
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline

[avatar]


[send pm]

Joined: Jan 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 41

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #47 on 4/26/06 at 6:12 » [Quote]
I am heading to AC in 2 weeks, does anyone have a WinCraps Auto bet file of Dave's system? I tried to create one this morning, but it is complicated to program. I think that it is a little too rich for my blood, but I will try it out on the computer.
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DeMango
Black Chip Member
****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Jan 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 200
Location: SouthWest Florida

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #48 on 4/28/06 at 12:15 » [Quote]
I have just run into this thread, looking for a system for a friend, a down on his luck don't player. My question is what if you lay on the 4/10 instead of the 6/8. So lay $45 on the 5/9 and $50 on the 4/10. Has anyone ran the Zumma, or win Craps or live play to see if there is a difference in results for Dave's System???
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
Psalm 14:1a "The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God' "
Proverbs 12:1 "Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge, but he who hates correction is stupid."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
7guy
White Chip Member
*
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #49 on 5/24/06 at 11:11 » [Quote]
Hi,

What is Dave's system??

New to the forum, and craps. Reading ALOT, and favoring the DP and DC.

I do OK until a shooter hits a bunch of points.

7Guy

CONTINUED...

User avatar
$5Bill
Posts: 1321
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:31 pm

Re: Dave's System

Post by $5Bill » Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:42 pm

PART 2


7guy
White Chip Member
*
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2

Re: "Dave's" system: found it, thanks
« Reply #50 on 5/24/06 at 11:56 » [Quote]
Hi,

Found details of Dave's System elsewhere on this site. This is my first visit to the site.

Thanks members for sharing some super ideas.

7 Guy.... Las Vegas
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
scout
Black Chip Member
****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 152
Location: MS Gulf Coast

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #51 on 5/25/06 at 1:21 » [Quote]
Hi 7guy,

Welcome to the board!

Good luck with Dave's system.

Best regards,
scout
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
tompeen
White Chip Member
*
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #52 on 6/1/06 at 19:06 » [Quote]
I'm a John Patrick guy: I usually play a 44 inside, one hit, down to 22 for one hit only. If I build up some profit, I'll let the 22 inside ride for three rolls, then down. If I lose three in a row, I walk.

Well, this long weekend I decided to go on the boat that goes out of Cape Canaveral, Florida, since I was bored. After we get out past the three mile marker, the action begins. I promptly lose three in a row and walk. But since I'm on a boat, there's really no place to walk to, and I'm going to be out on this boat for several more hours. So, I went to the bar, had a beer, and decided to play a modified version of Dave's system. I decided to let the table prove to me that it was warm enough to let me try my normal Patrick place strategy.

On the come out, I played the don't pass ($5) and once the point was established, I placed full odds until I could get one don't come landed. I kept playing the don't come. without the odds, until I was beat twice. If a point was made, I laid full odds ($30) on any don't comes I had out there , hoping for a come out seven.

This worked great. I had a couple of come out sevens where I cashed in and it really helped me gauge the temperature of the table. If I got beat twice on Dave's system, I would immediately went to a 44 inside and played my Patrick strategy. If I lost my $44 inside, I would immediately go to my modified Dave's system. The table was choppy cool, and most times, the shooter couldn't beat me twice. It felt good making money from the don'ts.

I walked off the boat with a $150 profit after leaving a $37 tip for the crew. With the terrible start I had, I felt very good about the day.



Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Golfer
Purple
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 676
Location: Chicagoland

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #53 on 6/1/06 at 19:48 » [Quote]
Nce win tompeen. It can be profitable. Like the touch to load up odds on a comeout.


Golfer
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2fist
Green Chip Member
***
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Jun 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 30

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #54 on 11/1/06 at 19:46 » [Quote]
Well, it's been awhile since I've posted. I started playing Dave's system again about two months ago. I've been buying in for $500 and playing the $10 tables. Thus, I'm laying $24 against the 6/8 and $30 against the 5/9.

I've played fourteen sessions. I won twelve sessions for a total of $2736 and I lost two sessions for a total of $908. This makes for a net profit of $1828 and averages out over the fourteen sessions to $130.57. That's the problem with this system and the typical player.... they're not satisfied for those small winnings... I LOVE THEM!

I hope to keep grinding with this and build my bankroll up to a point where I can play for larger numbers like I use to. I took alot of time off this year to buy a house and do some other things in business.

This thing works if you work it!
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Golfer
Purple
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 676
Location: Chicagoland

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #55 on 11/1/06 at 20:14 » [Quote]
Congrats. The numbers are fine. Slow and steady and the net keeps getting bigger.

Keep it coming.



Golfer
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heavy
Administrator
*******
member is offline

[avatar]

"Remember to play like the pros. Get in - get up - and get gone."


[homepage] [email] [send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,068

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #56 on 11/2/06 at 12:14 » [Quote]
Imagine if you bought in for $5000 instead of $500 and tacked a zero on the end of those lay bets. Suddenly your $100 plus session win becomes a $1000 plus session win. If you want to win big - you pretty much have to bet big. Of course, "big" is relative. A guy who buys in for $50,000 would likely scoff at a $1000 session win.
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sharkbyte
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline




[email] [send pm]

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 64
Location: Massachusetts

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #57 on 11/2/06 at 23:29 » [Quote]
Anyone who pays attention to my posts, around here, knows that I am one who is realist in that there is going to be betting on RRs, and I'm always looking for the best approach to have a positive outcome, from that. So this strategy piqued my interest, and I ran it against some RR numbers, I have collected. The following is what I found...

I judge everything I test by its overall hourly $ production. I figure we work, and get paid, by the hour; so that's a good rating. The funny thing is when it comes to what we want to reach, as an acceptable hourly rate...

Anyway, I ran a modified version of Dave's, against 23 sessions.

My modifications were:

1. $200 win limit, but would accept $190 (95% is the same as 100%). Actually resulted in a positive ($210) move to overall win.
* Potential future change: $170 is good enough to walk.

2. $150 on the first shooter resulted in a walk. 75%, in one shot, is more than a successfull session. There were 2 sessions that this happened. If the sessions were played out, it resulted in a reduction of $450, to total outcome.

3. $300 loss limit. Not $500.

4. Hits on 4s and 10s were not counted towards the 2 hits before bringing down odds.

5. One big change, I forgot...I was playing max odds ($60).

For 23 sessions, I had 15 winners, 8 losers. The first 11 sessions were winners.

I had 4, historically negative sessions, finish with wins. 2 winners that turned into losers. 2 losers were less than -$50, a third less than -$100.

Total win was $1754. Approximately $100/hr. exactly.

If all sessions were played, to completion (or the $300 loss limit), the total only increased to $1874, so does not appear to be worth the extra exposure.

However, complete sessions finished with 11 winners, and 12 losers!!!! With 4 losers below -$50.

Overall, I would have to say this is a serious strategy to explore, for anyone who feels a need to bet on RRs.
« Last Edit: 11/3/06 at 23:07 by Sharkbyte » Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sharkbyte
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline




[email] [send pm]

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 64
Location: Massachusetts

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #58 on 11/5/06 at 10:45 » [Quote]
Well, I have to report a failure....

I went to the casino, last night, with the intention of testing this system, a little. I was there for about 4 hours; tracked about 90 rolls, off one table; and listened to several other cheers, from other tables, in the pit; then walked by a roulette table, and ended up playing roulette all night. :o :o

Now, I walked out +$1200, so I'm not complaining. Although I did come up with a new roulette strategy, so I will be testing that, over the next several days.

Sorry, folks.
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TinhornGambler
Green Chip Member
***
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: May 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 58
Location: Las Vegas

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #59 on 11/5/06 at 15:59 » [Quote]
Sharkbyte

Sorry …. for Winning 1200 bucks, now that‘s a twist.
Now I feel sorry … that I wasn’t your roulette partner. ;D

THG

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bobby Bones
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline

[avatar]


[send pm]

Joined: Sept 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 36
Location: Welcome to My World

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #60 on 11/5/06 at 20:21 » [Quote]
Greetings
I've read this thread twice over, heading to Vegas in December can't wait to put it to the test. Somebody please tell me the intervals between sessions. Is it once a day like Mr.Dave or has somebody tried moving to another table to start a new session or go to a different casino the same day?? Thankyou everybody for all your input
BB
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sharkbyte
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline




[email] [send pm]

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 64
Location: Massachusetts

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #61 on 11/5/06 at 20:56 » [Quote]

Quote:
Greetings
I've read this thread twice over, heading to Vegas in December can't wait to put it to the test. Somebody please tell me the intervals between sessions. Is it once a day like Mr.Dave or has somebody tried moving to another table to start a new session or go to a different casino the same day?? Thankyou everybody for all your input
BB


My thought has been, that as long as you chart the table (or are comfortable enough with the move), changing tables would count.
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2fist
Green Chip Member
***
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Jun 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 30

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #62 on 11/6/06 at 14:31 » [Quote]
To answer the question, I only play one session per day if I play this system. That's what Dave does every morning. He's told me a few times that early on when he first started using it, he made the mistake of playing more than once a day. Most of the time he ended up losing on the day. Why? I have no clue. I'm content with single sessions.

Good point that Sharky made about charting the tables. Although Dave doesn't do this, I do. Thus, I will wait to see two different shooters in a row go down, meaning I would have profitted from them. Then, I jump in. "Charting's stupid... it doesn't matter." Okay. :)
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2fist
Green Chip Member
***
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Jun 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 30

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #63 on 1/16/07 at 11:44 » [Quote]
Hello all,
I thought I would offer another update. I'm still using Dave's system, playing twice a week during late evening hours when things are dying down. I can honestly say that the last twelve sessions have lasted less than an hour, with many not making it to a change of stick! WHEN THEM DICE ARE COLD, THIS SYSTEM REALLY SHINES!

I'm going for a $200 win per session and leaving if I've finished a series and I'm a few bucks short of that goal. I will still admit the hardest part of this system is walking away when you've hit your goal in 15 minutes and you're coloring out only to see the table still ice cold. That's where the discipline lies and that's what separates people from winning usiing any system, provided they are properly bank-rolled for the system they are utilizing.

Have a prosperous year!
2-Fist
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Golfer
Purple
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 676
Location: Chicagoland

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #64 on 1/16/07 at 15:39 » [Quote]
Congrats.

Golfer
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
mickeydont
White Chip Member
*
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #65 on 1/22/07 at 23:07 » [Quote]
tried the system for the first time tonite, buy-in $500, lost it all in less than 1 hr. found that there are too many targets on the DC,
have to assume this "dave" was just plain lucky!
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dylanfreak
Purple
*****
member is offline




[email] [send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,427
Location: West Memphis, Arkansas

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #66 on 1/23/07 at 5:59 » [Quote]
mickeydont,

With any system like "Dave's", you really need to try it more than one or two times before making a final judgement on it.

Even though a loss the first time when using a play is discouraging, the next time the numbers that show on the dice will be different and you may have a winner.

I never used Dave's System during casino play but when I put it through some previously recorded sessions , I came up with the same conclusion that you did---TOO MANY TARGETS for me.

Dylanfreak
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
Bob Dylan for President (Like a Rollin` Stone)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heavy
Administrator
*******
member is offline

[avatar]

"Remember to play like the pros. Get in - get up - and get gone."


[homepage] [email] [send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,068

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #67 on 1/23/07 at 7:06 » [Quote]
Man, I hate that "lost it all" line. I had a loss limit discussion with a fellow at one of the classes I teach recently. He typically bought in for $1000 and his session loss limit was "all of it." There comes a point IMHO where you have to come to the realization that "this dog won't hunt" (at least this session) and move on. Yeah, things COULD turn around with that play - but they may not. Take a break, switch tables and try it again another session.
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Golfer
Purple
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 676
Location: Chicagoland

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #68 on 1/23/07 at 8:43 » [Quote]
"Take a break, switch tables and try it again another session."

Great advice, as usual.

It is hard to do. it is especially hard for any of us outside of Vegas with limited playing options but if you force yourself to walk you will be pleased with the results over time.

I have seen a regular in Joliet play this system at the opening in the mornings. Min flat + $150 in odds. He usually goes the dp and then 2-3 dc bets. I have seen him get blown away quick, but have also seen him make $500+ in a matter of minutes. Overall he does well as he does walk most times before giving it away.

On the other side, there is another regular who only bets the inside. He does a $160 or $320 inside, takes a few hits, regresses
and down. He too walks with wins.

Heavy is right, walk.



Good Luck

Golfer
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
alfalcons
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline

[avatar]


[send pm]

Joined: Jan 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 41

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #69 on 1/23/07 at 11:49 » [Quote]
mickeydont,
Everyone has given you some good advice. I have found with my own practice and casino rolls that Dave's system is not that very good. Reason being, I tend to roll numbers in bunches. So that the DC bet will land on a number, then I will hit that number a few rolls later, if not the very next roll.

The only time it seems to be a winner for me is when I do a lot of short quick hands. Even the dreaded Point-seven-out is a draw (or small win with don't pass odds), because your don't pass will win, but your first don't come will lose.

If I have learned anything from this message board, is that if you bet on the don'ts, you better limit how many you will lose per shooter. DF likes 1 loss per shooter, I like 2 on someone else and 3 on myself. If you don't limit yourself then you are bound to hit that one hot shooter that will in 10 minutes kill your profit that you have building for the last hour. Nothing worse then that "hot shooter" being yourself. Believe me I have done it to myself a few times, never again.

Better luck next time.
« Last Edit: 1/23/07 at 11:50 by alfalcons » Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
nicklemidnight
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: May 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 54

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #70 on 1/23/07 at 18:42 » [Quote]
At the very beginning of this thread, 2Fist clearly states that Dave never loses more than TWO Lays on any given shooter. Some of the recent posts appear to contain thinking that strays from this principle. Using Dave's method, a "hot shooter" would cost a player two Lays -- period.

I've been using Dave's System fairly regularly since the first of the year. It's a real "kick" to try to load up the "back line." Several times I've had my Don't Comes travel to four different box numbers -- then that sweet seven-out arrives! I haven't made it yet to five let alone all six -- a Don't Pass bet laying odds and the other five box numbers laying odds on Don't Come bets.

Risk? Too many targets? Should I have three or four DP/DC bets with Lays, and two are knocked off by the shooter, I do exactly what Dave counsels: I tell the dealer to take down all remaining Lays (letting the flat bets remain).

Sure, I've been "whacked" (losing two Lays) a number of times since Jan. 1. My own "rule of thumb" is that should this happen three times within five or six or so shooters, it's clear that the trend at the table has changed.

One has two choices, IMHO. They are: Find another table to continue employing Dave's System (Heavy's sage, time-tested advice); or, switch to the "Do" at the present table (my approach).

I've switched from Dave's System to a conservative Place bet method several times, and I've been pleased with making those decisions every time. What I don't feel comfortable with regarding Dave's System is pulling more and more money out of my pockets (Dave goes as far as $3,000) and spending God knows how long at a table. I simply don't have the time, the patience nor healthy enough knees (at age 61) to play hour after hour to eke out the $200 win goal that Dave has.

For "full disclosure" purposes, I should state that I have been employing Dave's System at 40 percent of Dave's level. Where Dave has Lays of $60 on the 6 and the 8 and $75 on the 5 and 9, at the 40 percent mark my Lays are $24 on the 6 and 8 and $30 on the 5 and 9. My win goal also is 40 per cent. Dave's win goal is $200 per session, my win goal is $80. Never do I employ Dave's System when I am shooting.

I've found Dave's System is not a bad way to "pass the time" while waiting for the dice to return to me. Since I prefer -- and seek out -- tables that have only two, three or four other players (so I get the dice more frequently), sparsely populated tables such as these quite often are trending to "choppy" or "cold."

My worst loss with Dave's System was approximately $250. I then went to the "Do" with Place betting, and combined with a couple of my hands, recovered the $250 lost via Dave's System and left with a session win with which I was very pleased. -- NICKLEMIDNIGHT

« Last Edit: 1/23/07 at 18:48 by nicklemidnight » Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heavy
Administrator
*******
member is offline

[avatar]

"Remember to play like the pros. Get in - get up - and get gone."


[homepage] [email] [send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,068

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #71 on 1/24/07 at 7:59 » [Quote]
It's interesting to note that most of us who are hesitant to spread across all of the numbers on the Don't side of the game think nothing of betting $44 inside or $64 across on the Do side. Now, which bets are most likely to lose to the seven? And which number is most likely to roll next?

Yep. Sometimes you just have to re-frame your thought process a bit. Control - Alt - Delete. Reboot.

I haven't played Dave's system, I don't normally spread out over more than three numbers, and about the only time I lay odds is if one of my flat bets gets knocked off and I'm trying to recoup is by getting additional money on the four or ten (assuming I have a flat bet established on the four or ten).

Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
alfalcons
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline

[avatar]


[send pm]

Joined: Jan 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 41

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #72 on 1/24/07 at 18:43 » [Quote]

Quote:
At the very beginning of this thread, 2Fist clearly states that Dave never loses more than TWO Lays on any given shooter. Some of the recent posts appear to contain thinking that strays from this principle. Using Dave's method, a "hot shooter" would cost a player two Lays -- period.



Sorry I missed that at the begining of the thread... :-X

So you don't limit the number of DC bets, but if you get wacked 2 times on the same shooter, take down the remaining lays and DC odds bets and just leave the DC flat bets up? I will have to check my betting on the puter again and see if I have it correct. I remember the first time I heard about it I thought it wasn't that bad, but doesn't seem to work out on my rolls, but on the CF'ers at a cold table, I would imagine it would.
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heavy
Administrator
*******
member is offline

[avatar]

"Remember to play like the pros. Get in - get up - and get gone."


[homepage] [email] [send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,068

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #73 on 1/24/07 at 20:31 » [Quote]
I didn't check back to see what Dave's original strategy called for, but I'd never take down a Don't bet that had been established. I'd just stop making subsequent DC wagers. Then again, I wouldn't get spread out over all of the numbers. I'd max it at three.
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
nicklemidnight
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: May 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 54

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #74 on 1/25/07 at 12:17 » [Quote]
HEAVY AND ALFALCONS:

May I address some of your questions about Dave's System (and 2Fist, please jump in here if I'm off base on anything). Some of this may be obvious, but permit me to elaborate for newer readers:

HEAVY -- A flat bet is never taken down with Dave's System.

ALFALCONS: Correct, there is no limit to the number of DC bets made on any shooter. Just keep "shoveling the coal into the boiler" with your DC bets. You stated it very clearly in your entry above, " . . . if you get whacked two times on the same shooter, take down the remaining lays (on the Don't Pass and Don't Comes) . . . and just leave the flat bets up."

HEAVY: You touched lightly on 4 and the 10 Don't Come bets in your above entry. It's important to understand that with Dave's System, you never make Lays when your DC travels to the 4 and the 10. Lays are made only on inside numbers (5, 6, 8 and 9). Yes, it was a bit difficult for me at first to take Lays on the 6 and the 8. When you employ this system in Las Vegas casinos against Random Rollers, the value of those 6 and 8 Lays becomes apparent.

ALFALCONS: Yes, please run it again on your computer. But may I be so bold as to say that so many things we see and experience on an actual Crap table just don't occur in computer simulations. You stated above: " . . . it doesn't seem to work out on my rolls." May I suggest not running this on your own rolls. I never use Dave's System when I shoot. I only employ it on the Randies.

HEAVY: Maybe this is apparent, maybe not, so let me add: No additional DC bets are made once any given shooter "whacks" you (causes any two DP/DC bets with Lays to lose). As mentioned above, let the remaining "flat" bets alone. Simply wait for the seven-out and the next shooter.

ALFALCONS: You say above: "Even the dreaded point-seven-out is a draw (or a small win with Don't Pass odds) because your Don't Pass will win but your first Don't Come will lose." The fact of the matter is, I personally LOVE it when it's a point-seven-out situation. At my 40 percent level for Dave's System, I have a Lay of either $24 (on the 6 or the 8) or $30 (on the 5 or the 9) on my Don't Pass bet. A point-seven-out garners a win of $20 on the DP Lay while my $5 "flat" bet on the DP and the DC is a wash. It's only a no-gain situation on a point-seven-out if the point is 4 or 10, where no Lay is made.

HEAVY: You stated it perfectly in noting above: Re-frame your thought process a bit . . . " Don't "max it at three (DP/DC bets)." The very "heart and soul" of Dave's System (IMHO) is to keep making DC bets one after another WITHOUT pause -- UNTIL any given shooter "whacks" you to cause any two DP/DC bets with Lays to lose. You just don't know when that 7 will appear. You stated it perfectly: "And which number is most likely to roll next?"

To perhaps lend some clarification, let me set out a simple mock hand:

New shooter coming out: I make a $5 Don't Pass bet.

6 -- Point established. I take a $24 Lay with my $5 Don't Pass bet (note again, I personally use a 40 percent version of Dave's System. He makes larger Lays as explained in the first part of this thread.) I make a $5 Don't Come bet.

5 -- My $5 DC travels to the 5 and I make a $30 Lay. I make another $5 DC bet

4 -- My DC travels to the 4. No Lay is taken. Another $5 DC.

4 -- My DC bet already on the 4 loses, my present DC travels to the 4. Make another $5 DC.

8 -- My DC travels to the 8 and I make a $24 Lay. Another $5 DC bet.

5 -- My existing DC bet with a Lay on the 5 is lost while my new DC travels to the 5. I again make a $30 Lay bet. This is the first bet with a Lay that I have lost. I take a $25 green chip and hold it firmly in my left hand as a reminder that I've lost the first of two Lays that I am allowed to lose under Dave's System. Make another $5 DC bet.

9 -- My DC bet travels to the 9 and I make a $30 Lay. Another $5 DC is made.

3 -- My DC wins. Yes, I should follow Sam Grafstein's advice and stack in up to $10 for my next DC. I don't! I remain at the $5 DC bet level.

9 -- My existing DC bet on the 9 with a $30 Lay is lost. It is my second loss with a Lay and I have been "whacked." I immediately tell the dealer to take down my Lay on the 5 and I remove my $24 Lay with my $5 Don't Pass bet. I leave all remaining "flat" bets where they are. No further bets are made on this hand.

Now, imagine for one moment that in the above mock hand the last number thrown was NOT the 9 -- but instead was the 7!

That's my positive way of "darkside" thinking. It's really a matter of reminding oneself that the next likely number to appear is that all-powerful 7! I hope this entry adds a modicum of insights into Dave's System -- NICKLEMIDNIGHT

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

nicklemidnight
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: May 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 54

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #75 on 1/26/07 at 9:33 » [Quote]
An afterthought: Looking over what I wrote yesterday, let me make it clear that Dave's System, to my mind, is NOT "the end all and the be all" (if I may, too, DF, quote Mr. Shakespeare).

Dave's System is another way to make a few dollars when the opportunity (table conditions) presents itself. It's another useful "tool" in my "toolbox," NOT the path to riches and glory at the Crap tables. -- NICKLEMIDNIGHT
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
6dollar6
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 72
Location: Illinois

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #76 on 1/26/07 at 14:22 » [Quote]
Dave's System is another way to make a few dollars when the opportunity (table conditions) presents itself. It's another useful "tool" in my "toolbox," NOT the path to riches and glory at the Crap tables. -- NICKLEMIDNIGHT


So true.

Knowledge of many tools, when and when not to use them, and their settings and adjustments are essential to the success of a craftsman in any field. I hope to become a craftsman at craps.

6dollar6
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
alfalcons
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline

[avatar]


[send pm]

Joined: Jan 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 41

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #77 on 1/27/07 at 8:45 » [Quote]

Quote:


ALFALCONS: Yes, please run it again on your computer. But may I be so bold as to say that so many things we see and experience on an actual Crap table just don't occur in computer simulations. You stated above: " . . . it doesn't seem to work out on my rolls." May I suggest not running this on your own rolls. I never use Dave's System when I shoot. I only employ it on the Randies.

Nicklemidnight:
I will give it a whirl this weekend. I had another system in on my computer called "Dave's" but it was not the same as you are describing. I was missing the initial lay bets on 5,6,8,9 and only doing the don't pass, don't come. Agreed that if you are shooting from the "right" side, this is not the betting method to use. But some times my rolls are good from the wrong side as well, as I am not a great shooter at this point. I also have a stock of 100 random rolls that I can run it across if I can get the bet programming to work. I will try and post the results.

Belive me, I know strange things happen at the tables, that don't happen at home on the puter. Great thing about the computer, I have never lost any money sitting in front of it, and don't plan to either! ;)

Thanks for the clarification on how you use the method.

Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
michelobe
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Sept 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 22
Location: (casino name deleted per ProBoards TOS)

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #78 on 1/27/07 at 11:33 » [Quote]

Nicklemidnight thanks for clearing up Daves system. Was getting a little confused. I,ll give this a try on the practice rig.
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2fist
Green Chip Member
***
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Jun 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 30

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #79 on 1/30/07 at 14:28 » [Quote]
Hello all,
I see a bunch has been stated since I left my last post. I wish to address a couple things.

1) Don't use this system when you shoot! Unless you are a highly skilled DI, and can set for sevens and get em'... this can be an aggrivating system to use. In the past when I've done it, I generally lose, hitting my dc's!

2) If I'm playing Dave's system (which is most of the time) I don't shoot dice.... Neither does Dave!

3) A shooter only gets two chances at my dc's with lays as Nickelmidnite has explained. Yeah, if you're not limiting it to two, one shooter can and will wipe-out your session stake. I'm guessing that's what happened to that guy with the $500 buy in who lost it in under an hour.

4) Dave doesn't chart table temps, but I do. I only play this at night when things are dying down and the mood is cool. I'm in and I'm out! The shorter the better.

5) I'm generally not a lucky person, but this system has worked for me. There is no fail-safe system out there, this is in fact GAMBLING! However, as is consistent with this board, we're trying to play the systems with the best odds, giving us the best chances to walk away a winner.

6) As with any other system, never get upset, angry, ticked-off when losing and start doubling up on your lays... That's gonna break your bankroll quicker than anything!

7) Haven't mentioned this, but it helps to have a good attitude at the table. Nothing wrong with talking to the dealers, joking, laughing, etc. When I'm down and upset, I end up losing, when I'm upbeat and positive, even if I lose, I find the wherewithall to walk away when I need to. Hence, "loss-limits". I place a white chip in the middle of my buy-in, so I always have an idea where I'm at. If not, how will u know when you've hit your win goal?

8) I have to emphasize NOT playing this when tables are busy and hot... you can lose quickly. Although the odds are pretty good on this, you have to have some bullets left to make a recovery and you can't do that if you're busted.

I haven't lost a session since my last post with this system. It works in the long run if you work it and use common sense, oh.... and if you DONT GET GREEDY!

**** Don't try this without looking at the beginning posts when the system was outlined. Why would you put money at risk and not fully understand what you're doing? ****
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
alfalcons
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline

[avatar]


[send pm]

Joined: Jan 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 41

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #80 on 1/30/07 at 19:56 » [Quote]
Thanks for the post 2fist...
I feel the same way about craps as you do, the mood can help a lot. I like to be in a good mood when I play and hope that it carries over to the other people at the table. This is an interesting way of betting, and I made a few betting files on the puter and here are my initial results, but not complete...

I ran the methods with these assumptions, I would play until I won $200 or lost $300, or played for 3 hours. After one of those hits, you play out the current hand and stop. I had 100 random roll files that I have used to compare strategies for 2 years.

Method 1, I call it "Dave-lay". I believe is the one described at the first post...
Only 20 hands played, 7 wins, 13 losses, -$2,903, average loss of $145. This method got destroyed too many times for max loss. But I think as I play more hands it will even out to be closer to 45% wins.

Method 2, I call it "Dave2", is what I tried to do based upon nicklemidnight's last description of his play on it. That did a lot better and I played through 50 of the 100 hands.
30 wins, 20 losses win of $1865, average win of $37. This is very good for methods against my random numbers, probably one of the top 10 methods I have tried or better. I will let you know when I am all the way through 100 files.

The big difference of the 2 methods was this, in the Dave2 method, the roll after the point is set, I have 3 bets only, DC, DP, DP Odds. In the Dave-lay method, I would also have 3-4 lay bets on the 5,6,8,9 in addition to a DC, DP and DP odds. Those lays on the most popular number seem to get clobbered.

So far I perfer the Dave2 method, less money at risk right away and seems to be a more consistent winner, 60% to 35%.

Hey 2fist, ask Dave if he ever called it the "Dave-lay" method before, or I hope that is what he does to have some fun... 8-)

Of course the small win limit is very smart with these methods. I saw several times, that if I kept playing after winning $200, most of the time I would end up losing for the session.

More to come later..
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
nicklemidnight
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: May 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 54

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #81 on 1/31/07 at 11:46 » [Quote]
2FIST: Thanks for your additional thoughts and insights! They are very helpful. One "twist" that I forgot to add in my recent posts about Dave's System is "toking" for the dealers.

When a Random Roller has established his point and I've laid odds against it, and then he moves two of my Don't Come bets to inside numbers and I make Lay bets on those, I set two or three dollars on the table just outside the DC box, lean close to the dealer and whisper these exact words: "Quietly, very quietly, make a Big Red bet for the dealers."

Most often, the dealer puts the money in front of the Boxman and whispers the bet, and the Box sets up the "Red." It's all done without "rubbing it in the face" of the shooter, so to speak.

It sure is a kick when the next toss is a 7 -- but the "boys" can't get too excited, of course. Hey, Dave's System DOES mean a lot of work for the dealers. It's my way of "taking care of the boys." -- NICKLEMIDNIGHT
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Golfer
Purple
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 676
Location: Chicagoland

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #82 on 1/31/07 at 17:08 » [Quote]
LOL NM,

Have done the same thing. When possible I try to hop them for the boys and always try to do it discreetly. Always saying red and never "7". The dealers love it.


Golfer
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
nicklemidnight
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: May 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 54

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #83 on 2/2/07 at 6:54 » [Quote]
GOLFER: Yes, the dealers DO love it when I make a "Red" bet for them and the seven-out pops! The smirks that often appear on their faces when it happens makes me wonder . . . -- NICKLEMIDNIGHT
« Last Edit: 2/2/07 at 14:27 by nicklemidnight » Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
alfalcons
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline

[avatar]


[send pm]

Joined: Jan 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 41

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #84 on 2/3/07 at 20:03 » [Quote]
Ok, my final results for Dave's System on my computer. I only tested the "Dave2" method through 100 roll files. It did very good, winning 59-41 and an average win of $26. This is a pretty good average win for my 100 rolls. The best strategy I have found for these rolls is $66 inside, 1 hit and down.. Wait for new point cycle and bet $66 inside again, same thing 1 hit and down. I have never really tried this in the casino, but on the puter; it works very well, with a $40 average win, 58-42 record.

I have another method of $5 pass, $20 odds on every point. It finishes with 57-43 record and an average win of $16.

I tried the Dave-Lay method with a $1000 loss limit to see if having a $300 loss limit was beating me. Not so on the rolls I tested, having the larger loss limit, just meant that I loss more.

That was a fun experiement... I have not tested the nueral theory fully on this set of rolls, but I believe it will do well. The Nueral is my favorite wrong way play at this time, I don't switch to the pass at all, just stay on the don'ts..
« Last Edit: 2/3/07 at 20:05 by alfalcons » Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
isgood
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Feb 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 15

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #85 on 2/23/07 at 16:05 » [Quote]
I'm reading this a little late. So, I hope 2fist is watching. My question is do you take down your lay bets after being "wacked" twice on bets with lays only? OR do you take down the lay bets after being "wacked" twice including the bet that do not have an odds bet. Stated another way, with a bet on the 4 and a bet with a lay (say a 6) and the shooter throws a 6 and then a 4, are you considered "wacked" twice? In 2fist's opening about the system on page 1 it does not say anything about being hit twice on bets with lays. However, as this thread evolved, that is what is being said. So, I ask 2fist---How does Dave play it?
Thanks,
isgood
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2fist
Green Chip Member
***
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Jun 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 30

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #86 on 2/27/07 at 14:39 » [Quote]
Isgood,
That's a great question. When Dave gets hit on either the 4 or the 10 (no odds bet ever behind these two), he doesn't count them. Thus, let's say he's established a dc6, dc5, dc4. The four gets knocked down, and then the 6... he's only taken one hit in his mind and keeps going.

In playing this system for a year and a half, my experience has been that if a shooter has hit me on one of those twice, he's gonna hit me on whatever else I have up! So, I personally count them as hits.

Play it whatever way you're comfortable.

BTW, I had a great January using this and I'm ahead this month as well.

Best wishes!
2fist
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
isgood
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Feb 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 15

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #87 on 6/14/07 at 16:29 » [Quote]
Now I know it has been a while since this thread has had any posting and it may not interest anyone anymore, but I just have to finally say what has been happening to me the last couple of months using this system.

I strictly adhered to the rules. I layed odds only on the 5,6,8,and 9. If a shooter "whacked" me twice with odds, I picked up all odds bets until the hand was over for that shooter and started up again with the next shooter. I never tossed. I never used this system on anyone setting the dice and had a reasonable toss. If they set and just bowled the dice, I did use the system.

I have had many many sessions and hit the $200 win every time and I never had to buy in for more than $700. I have not had more than 20 sessions-but that one loser seems is going to be rare. I did set the loss limit at $1000.

As I played the system, I started to notice a few things. I never lost more than $150 on a shooter( give or take $10-$20 since the 11 usually is offset by the 2 or 3 or the 4 or 10 was hit a few times). Now how many right siders put out more than that across or even build up to more than $150 on the table? And then the 7 shows.

Also, I may be on many numbers and that is what everyone is scared of, but the number that is rolled the most is the only one I need. And I have an automatic stop loss if the shooter picks off two of my numbers with a lay bet. Yes it can be disconcerting to keep shoveling out the lay bets on roll after roll, but I have a stop loss and I'm waiting for that 7(the one number with the highest chance of being rolled!)

Some say it is too aggressive and they feel they are setting themselves up to be "picked off". I say that if you are on the right side and you build up a lot of money on the table, it is still YOUR money(even though you may say you are playing with the casino's money) and when the 7 shows you have lost all YOUR money. This system rewards you when the 7 shows and you may have a lot out there but not all of it is at risk. Only two of the lay bets are at risk. If the two hits come I just pick up all the other lay bets. When you are on the right side, not many of us can pick up all that money on the table just before the 7 comes up.

So, how is this a scary system? Once I got past the 4th winning session am I now playing with their money?
isgood
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DeMango
Black Chip Member
****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Jan 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 200
Location: SouthWest Florida

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #88 on 6/15/07 at 16:04 » [Quote]
Thanks for the update. It is ANOTHER testimony of betting the don't on random rollers and making money. My personal betting history also mirrors this. Hmmmmmmmm
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
Psalm 14:1a "The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God' "
Proverbs 12:1 "Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge, but he who hates correction is stupid."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
nicklemidnight
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: May 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 54

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #89 on 6/21/07 at 15:54 » [Quote]
ISGOOD: Excellent update on Dave's System! There's seldom a week that goes by where I don't pluck Dave's System from my "tool box" and find success with it.

I would stress one aspect that you don't cover: Always avoid tables with lots of happy, peppy people who have lots of chips in the rail. Seek out choppy tables on purpose; better yet, find "moaning and groaning" tables. That's where all the players are moaning and groaning aloud about how cold the table is. Find those tables and obviously you'll reach your $200 win goal faster and, in my opinion, with less risk.

Keep us informed about how you do with Dave's System over the coming months. -- NICKLEMIDNIGHT

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
muzzybar
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Sept 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 1

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #90 on 6/29/07 at 23:01 » [Quote]
Good point NM:

That's a great point, seek out table with low chips counts on rail or all chips in the players' hand...and people with long faces....

Muzzybar

Great thread gang...interesting stuff...
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
shiraz
Green Chip Member
***
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Oct 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 63

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #91 on 7/2/07 at 8:02 » [Quote]
2fist: I have asked you this question before, but I still do not understand. On page 1 in your point # 6 you write, " IF the shooter knocks only one of his bets down and then sevens out, Dave goes right back up on him and starts over as if this is a new shooter". Now if the shooter sevens out, obviously another shooter starts the roll. Now, how can Dave go right back on the shooter who sevened out and think that he is a new shooter ???
Thanks.
Sam.

.
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dylanfreak
Purple
*****
member is offline




[email] [send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,427
Location: West Memphis, Arkansas

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #92 on 7/3/07 at 5:25 » [Quote]
Shiraz , I think he means if the shooter makes his point and then tosses a comeout Seven, then Dave goes back up on the shooter.

I may be wrong , but that is the way I assumed it.

Dylanfreak
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
Bob Dylan for President (Like a Rollin` Stone)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
shiraz
Green Chip Member
***
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Oct 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 63

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #93 on 7/4/07 at 14:07 » [Quote]
Dy
Thanks - you may be right, otherwise it does not make any sense.
Sam.
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
nicklemidnight
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: May 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 54

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #94 on 7/7/07 at 6:05 » [Quote]
SHIRAZ: Yes, that sentence is confusing. Push past that muddled statement. The cornerstone of Dave's System is NEVER losing more than TWO Lays on any hand. -- NICKLEMIDNIGHT

Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Golfer
Purple
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 676
Location: Chicagoland

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #95 on 7/7/07 at 16:09 » [Quote]
Hope some here load up today with it being 7-7-07. Should be a darksider's dream. However, you might want to hedge that Comeout with a lay bet, the rightsiders might toss a 7 or two themselves.

Golfer
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dylanfreak
Purple
*****
member is offline




[email] [send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,427
Location: West Memphis, Arkansas

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #96 on 7/8/07 at 5:27 » [Quote]
I played Professor H`s ThreeOuts and Switch Strategy a few years ago and had some decent wins , but also some bad losses.

It was OK , but after every session I wouls second guess my play ---whether I should have switched back and forth or whether I should have just played one side or the other??

At the time , I was playing on a very short bankroll , so I was living and dying with every decision, which was driving me nuts.

Since I was never very good at reading a table and since "craps superstitions " sometimes worked and sometimes didn`t , I decided for the sake of my "craps sanity" to go one way or the other and not be a "craps morphodyte".

I quit second guessing by playing strictly the Darkside and although I still am a little crazy, I am at least sane.

Dylanfreak


Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
Bob Dylan for President (Like a Rollin` Stone)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
upanddown
Green Chip Member
***
member is offline




[email] [send pm]

Joined: Nov 2004
Gender: Male
Posts: 43
Location: fort worth, tx

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #97 on 7/9/07 at 16:53 » [Quote]
please correct me if im wrong, I just want to make sure that I am following this correctly.

When he point goes to a number, I would place the odds on that number only. The on the dont come roll, when it travels to a number, I would place odds on that number. I do understand that it is played by not placing odds for the 4 or 10.

Or....when a point is made, and lets say that it goes to the 6, I would place odds on that number behind my dont pass bet AND lay the 5, 8, and 9 at this point.

I am a little confused. I am thinking it is the 1st scenario that I gave, but I want to make sure.

thanks
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
elephanttracks
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline



A crap check is a good thing!!!!!!!!!!


[send pm]

Joined: May 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 49

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #98 on 7/10/07 at 9:41 » [Quote]
Hi All: Nicklemidnight offers some good advise..Look for that cold table before trying Dave's system..In several attempts to switch to Dave's system when the table has temporally cooled for 2-3 shooter's I've had disappointing results..

Can you say " Whippsawed" like a step child...Tables that are choppy will kill you as you try to move from one side to the other..So look for a table that's already trending cold and get the job done and get gone.........Tracks
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
Lost once , didn't like it , winning is better!!! Dang, lost again!!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


CONTINUED...

User avatar
$5Bill
Posts: 1321
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:31 pm

Re: Dave's System

Post by $5Bill » Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:22 am

PART 3


nicklemidnight
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: May 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 54

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #99 on 7/11/07 at 5:11 » [Quote]
Excellent point, Elephanttracks!

A table "temporary" cooling down is NOT the time to switch to Dave's System. I'm convinced it's best to purposely seek out cool/choppy tables for Dave's System -- or go to Dave's if you happen to stumble upon a suitable table.

For example, yesterday I was a bit early in picking up my wife "Misty" from her job at a Strip casino. As I casually watched the action at one Crap table, it was an easy decision. In less than 45 minutes, I gained $88 with Dave's System (betting $5 flat bets, laying $12 or $15).

One can debate the merits of charting tables, but I've found charting of great value for Dave's System. It can be "informal" (as my $88 session was yesterday), or, if you're more inclined, grab a bacarrat card and pen and chart as the dice go around the table a couple of times. -- NICKLEMIDNIGHT
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
nicklemidnight
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: May 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 54

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #100 on 7/11/07 at 5:36 » [Quote]
UPANDDOWN: Here's the "in-the-nutshell" explanation for Dave's System. On any given shooter:

-- Start: Make continuous Don't Pass and Don't Come bets. YES, on every toss shooter throws!

-- Lay Odds: On any DP or DC on the 5, 6, 8 or 9.

-- Stop: After any two Lays have been "whacked" (lost).

-- Remove: Any remaining Lays if shooter "whacks" you two times (let flat bets remain).

-- Collect: Winnings if seven-out occurs before two "whacks."

Send me a personal message about how to contact you if there's any part of Dave's System that isn't clear. -- NICKLEMIDNIGHT
« Last Edit: 7/11/07 at 5:52 by nicklemidnight » Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
wwwwww
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 116

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #101 on 7/14/07 at 4:14 » [Quote]
Hi Braintrusts,

I ran DS (Dave's System ) over 125 hours of real charted numbers out of Zumma.

As you may know, I ran it with-out using the 3+ Capping pre-quaifier through Zumma's and it failed.... big-time.

With 3+ capping I can NOT get it to fail...so far, anyway.

I will run more testing. I use the c/o seven as one of the numbers in the pre-quaifier ...3+Capping leading into Dave's System.

I like the idea of not having more than 25% of my bet at risk at one time. With the Neural System, you are always going up the progression -betting ladder.... and that is scarey !
Thoughts ?
Best........
Jim Dodd
WWWWWWW
PS: Local Newspaper here today taking 30-40 pic's of me painting my house.

That makes 2 Local newspapers and 20/20 here taking pic's of me painting my house....jessss.... not one of them offered to help me paint !
FYI.... My story now moved up to the opening 20/20 show for the new 2008 Season-opener 20/20 on Sept. 7th, 2007.

The 20/20 producer is sending a crew to get even more pics and to follow me to Goshen,Ca., to board the 11:45PM bus to TJ, M exico on the 23rd.

They then are following the bus the 400 miles to the TJ Border to get more pic's of me getting off bus and going to Medical and Dental Appointments in TJ. Mexico.

The Fresno Bee story has had legs. I saw it posted in Alaska, Ill., New Dephia, India...Wow !
« Last Edit: 7/14/07 at 9:29 by wwwwww » Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dylanfreak
Purple
*****
member is offline




[email] [send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,427
Location: West Memphis, Arkansas

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #102 on 7/14/07 at 4:54 » [Quote]
WWWW,
I was ready to watch it next Friday night. I guess I shall need to use some of my Darkside Craps Patience and wait until September to see your show on Health Care.

Dylanfreak
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
Bob Dylan for President (Like a Rollin` Stone)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
wwwwww
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 116

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #103 on 7/14/07 at 10:26 » [Quote]
HI,

DF this is the 3rd bump-up on 20/20 airdate. It is running into the press of M. Moore's new movie , " Sicko ".

What an eye -opener of a movie. ...Wow !

I am still smarting over not taking the bus to Bajanor Hospital in TJ, Mexico a few months ago.

I needed 2 bags of IV water.... I mean what can two bags of water cost at the local Emergency room...right ?

They billed me + $ 2,600.00 plus ! and when I questioned the bill I was told .... "Well, someone has to pay for the people who do not pay their Hospital bills ! " .....jessss !.... give me a break !

They also sent me a letter..."Pay the ( phoney ) charges or we will take you to a Lic. Collection Agency ! " .... and they signed the letter...Sincerely..... Really !!!?

My Doctor in TJ, Mexico said if I had taken the bus , the total bill for the two bags , plus injection, would have been + $ 19.00 (US) ....NOT + $ 2,600.00 PLUS !!!!!

The Healthcare System in the US is totally broken ... U think ?.
..................................................................................................

Using DS and 3+Capping and Zumma's Craps System Testing Book, I picked out the hottest table I could , so far, find in the book.

It is page # 106. It had 107 real rolls in one hour of play. ... .97 of an hour to be exact.

check this out :

The 3+Capping rules leading into Dave's System :

Count the C/O 7 and 11s into the qualifiying min. of 3 pass-line wins, in a row , and then Capped by a DP ... 7-out win, before starting Dave's System.

Use the C/O 2,3, 12 as non-affecting numbers.... skip over them in the count.

When the string of a min. of 3 Pass-Line wins, in a row, have been capped by a Don't Pass Win..... it can be by a 4-7 or 10-7 even though we are not betting on the 4 or 10.

we now Lay-bet the inside 4 numbers ( 5-6-8 and 9 ) for two wins. After the two wins..... down on all bets still up.

If after capping, we lose two of our lay-bets , back to back, we pull the two remaining bets down and wait for the string of Pass-Line Winning Numbers to be Capped again. ( while waiting, the qualifier rule of 3 pass-line wins in-a-row still applies).

After the capping occurs, I like betting 90.00 on the 5 and 9 and 98.00 each on the 6 and 8.

Two , Dave- System type wins, in a row, ( A and B ) and the game-within -the -game is over.

Take all up - bets down and wait for the next 3+ Capping set-up.

Use the 4 and 10 C/O rolls in the 3+ capping count only. Do not bet on the 4 or 10.

That is bacically it .... this is how page # 106 went...what a hot table !

10...7
8..7
9..7
7 .... count #1 in 3+ Capping.
10... 10..... count #2 in 3+ Capping .
7 ...count # three in 3+ Capping ... now waaiting for a PL win...
7... waiting....
2 ... non-affecting number
5...5 ... still waiting for capping DP win....
8 .... 8
6......6
8..8
6...6
8....8
6....7...CAPPED !.. lay betting on 5,6,8 @ 9 on next good point #.
7... no betting ...waiting ...
10 ........7..... no bet..........
3 ...trash # ..... no bet....
6 ...... 7 ...Wow ! a WIN !....
7...
4.....7...
9......7 ... 2nd WIN ! ....OFF SYSTEM until 3+ CAPPING sets up again.

Three + Capping did not set up for the rest of the 107 rolls.....

WARNING ! .... I HAVE GOTTEN THIS SYSTEM TO RECENTLY FAIL IN TESTING.....hummmmmm ?
THOUGHTS ?
WWWWWWW
( White- Winter Whiskey-Wolf, Wanta-be, Wambat-Wizard )
« Last Edit: 7/22/07 at 17:32 by wwwwww » Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
wwwwww
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 116

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #104 on 7/16/07 at 8:43 » [Quote]
YO BRAINTRUSTS.....


I HAVE RUN THIS NEW SYSTEM THROUGH 7,500 REAL ROLLS OUT OF ZUMMA'S CRAPS TESTING BOOK....WOW ! ...NO LOSES !

I think I'll call it ... FCCS..." Failsafe Cash-Cow Craps System.


I am going to real Casino test it and if it holds up as well as it does in practice.... it's marketing time ! "

Thoughts ?
WWWWWWW
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

wwwwww
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 116

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #105 on 7/18/07 at 12:50 » [Quote]
Hi All...............

Well I got this new twist on Dave's System to finally fail in testing.....

Bummer to the max.........

Best,

WWWWWWW
PS: Do to lack of action on this board, I will not post on this board anymore.
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Golfer
Purple
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 676
Location: Chicagoland

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #106 on 7/18/07 at 19:56 » [Quote]
wwww, don't be too hard on the board. It is summertime, a lot of people are in Vegas or on vacation. Others, like myself have been swamped at work.

Your posts are a good read. Don't walk too quickly.

All darksiders are known for our patience right?


Hang in there, you have a lot to contribute. And I need help with watching DF.


Golfer
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Operator
Black Chip Member
****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: May 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 411

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #107 on 7/18/07 at 20:25 » [Quote]
yea like golfer said man work dear god im covered up with it.
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arnie
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline




[email] [send pm]

Joined: Oct 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 649

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #108 on 7/21/07 at 20:20 » [Quote]
Someone show me a plan, scheme or system that did not fail, ever....PLEASE!!!!

I have developed a few that are very good, I have a collection of 100's (literally) for craps, roulette, Bac, and other casino games and I can tell you no matter how good or poor they are, each WILL win at some point and ALL will lose no matter how excellent they may be.

Hopefully the losses won't crush the previous wins...or worse, they lose the very first time you play them in a casino. Now that is a heart-breaker.



« Last Edit: 7/21/07 at 20:21 by Arnie » Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
Postatem obscuri lateris nescitis

Come Over To the Dark Side - WE HAVE COOKIES!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BlackCloud
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline



Retired AF Pilot


[send pm]

Joined: May 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 155
Location: Austin Tx

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #109 on 7/22/07 at 0:09 » [Quote]
UNHH!!Arnie brave, Time UNHH!!
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
wwwwww
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 116

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #110 on 7/26/07 at 8:15 » [Quote]
HI ALL,

I am recovering from my trip to TJ, Mexico 24 hrs ago.

On Monday, our local ABC TV Station was here at my house filming an interview for 90 min.

The reporter wore me out...She kept hammering me on the same question... '' You did not think the healthcare in Mexico was sub-standard to the US Healthcare ? "

My respondse was that 2,000 US Citizens a week die from infections they get in US Hospitals that they did not have when they went into the US Hospital !

I was in Bajanor Hospital for 3+ Months in 2004 with a 10 inch open-chest wound and I did not get an infection.

On Monday afternoon the 20/20 cameraman showed up at my house. My 90 min. interview with John Stossel must have been a hit in NY.


The 20/20 cameraman filmed me painting my house and walking my White Standard Poodles at the river in frount of my house.

He re-joined me at 11:00PM , 16 miles away at the Goshen, Ca. Greyhound Bus Station along with the local ABC aff....Channel 30 cameraman.

They took pic's of me boarding the bus to TJ, Mexico. They both came on-board to take pics of me sitting in my seat next to the black just-released-from- prison-kid......it freaked him out !

I arrived at the Border at San Yesdro, Ca. at 7:45AM and was put on the wrong bus ! The bus I needed was bound for Downtown TJ. I was put on the bus to the TJ, Airport....8 miles from the 20/20 film crew and 2 Bajanor vans waiting at the DT Bus Station !

What a bummer ! ...jesss... at the wrong bus station ! ...so.... I took a cab back to the DT Bus Station . The cab driver did not know where the bus station DT was ? .....jessss...what kind of bus driver does not know where the Bus Station is ?

We arrived 35 min. late. The 20/20 crew , came out into the street , and hit me with the big camera's while I was arguing with the cab driver over the +30.00 he was trying to charge me..... I gave him 20.00 .... still to much !

We went to the Hospital and did a photo-shoot on EKG, Blood work, hernia evaluations and conversations about my next surgeries .

The filming wrapped up with a trip down the hall to the denist's office for a mock exam.

In Doctor Carlos's office, we went over the idem's on my + $2,600.00 + Hospital bill, from my local US Hospital , for the two bags of IV water.

Doctor Carlos stated that the bill was total over billing fraud !!!

The cost for 2 IV's at Bajanor Hospital is + 19.00 (US) ....NOT + $2,600.00 AS I WAS CHARGED !

Welcome to the United States , " FOR PROFIT " Healthcare system !


THE ABOVE IS WHY I AM MOVING TO MEXICO !

I did the shoot in hopes it helps other US Citizens see they have Healthcare options other than rolling over and giving the US Healthcare Corperations their houses ( as my neighbor did when his wife developed brain cancer ....the Hospital bill forced him into Bankruptey and he lost his house and bank accounts.....sad ! ) and going $$$$ broke.

Anyway, I have modified Dave's system once again. I now LAY -bet the 5 and 9 for 45.00 and the 6 and eight for 48.00.

If I lose two of these bets, in a row, I wait for the 3+ capping to kick in again..... If I win one of the two bets, ( A or B bets ) I move to the 2nd level of the new 3-step Martingale betting plan.

The second step is 90.00 ...5 and 9 & 90.00 on the 6 and 8.

Win one bet an move-up to level 3....... 180.00 lay-bet on each inside number..... 5,6,8 and 9.

This way of play is more risk tolerant.
Thoughts ?
Jim Dodd
WWWWWWW

WATCH THE SEPTEMBER 7TH ...OPENING 20/20 SHOW FOR THE 2008 SEASON ......
« Last Edit: 7/26/07 at 12:41 by wwwwww » Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jonah
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 148

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #111 on 7/26/07 at 14:18 » [Quote]
If you move to Mexico, you'll have to drive back across the border to San Diego, if you wanted to try your newly modified non-Dave, non-Sliverthorne, now Martingale based system.

It looks like the closest Mexican casinos are in central Mexico (Guanajato), and along the Texas/Mexico border, with a newly opened Mexican casino in Matamoros.

The medical system may be bad, but at least the U.S. does have casinos with the games that you have either played or tested this new system with...
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dylanfreak
Purple
*****
member is offline




[email] [send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,427
Location: West Memphis, Arkansas

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #112 on 7/26/07 at 18:12 » [Quote]
WWWWWWW,

I am really interested in seeing that program.

Did the prison kid go all the way to Mexico?

Everytime I see a roulette or baccarat table , I ; look at the numbers or side that has won and usually , it seems that 3-cappin` would have worked.

Dylanfreak
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
Bob Dylan for President (Like a Rollin` Stone)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heavy
Administrator
*******
member is offline

[avatar]

"Remember to play like the pros. Get in - get up - and get gone."


[homepage] [email] [send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,068

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #113 on 7/26/07 at 21:05 » [Quote]
Hey WWWWW. If you or Arnie are feeling creative I'd be interersted in looking at a transitional system that starts with $66 inside - one hit - regress to $22 inside - one more hit - then press every other hit afterward. As long as the hand continues press every other hit - regardless of which number hits. If the first one or two hits are complete and then the seven shows - simply repeat on the next shooter. If the shooter goes PSO with NO hits at the $66 inside level - transition to the Don'ts for a recovery stage. I am undecided on the mechanics of the recovery stage, but I think I want it to start with the next bet as opposed to a 3 capping method. Transitioning to something akin to Dave's system might work. Another thought is to transition to a $75 DP and running a $125, $200, $325, $525 fibo. Something along those lines.

Another option might be to run the same type strategy beginning with $64 across for 2 - 3 hits with the same type of recovery move.

Anyone up to setting it up and running it through a zumma book for grins?
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
wwwwww
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 116

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #114 on 7/27/07 at 3:46 » [Quote]
Yo ALL.... :D 8-) :P

Df .... He got off the bus in San Diego. We had an interesting conversation the 6+ hrs. we were sitting together.

I asked him were he was coming from ? He said Susanville, Ca. I asked him if he worked there ? ...He said he had a few jobs....... jesss........ I am slow ! ...... prison !

I said not to worry, I have a criminal mind. We got along great ! ...planning heists and were to stash the loot !

Anyway, I am so glad this Healthcare thing is winding down....I had to deal with 5 camera crews this week....

I hope it helps people NOT to lose there houses and $$$ to the Bogus, fraudulant overbilling US Healthcare System ?

I plan on living within 3 min. of the US Border in TJ. That gives me striking shot to Laughlan and Vegas along with the San Diego Indian Casino's , of which most have craps tables with the lay-betting I need....played with cards and dice !!!

There are 12 - 10 story condo towers , I have stayed in , behind the Nissan TJ Dealership , 3 min. from the Border.

They are in eye-shot of the new Costco..... 3 bedrooms , marble floors, micro above stoves, double-door reg. and elevators.

Electric gates, guards at night ....+ 50K with a 30.00 a month acc. fee. Twenty Dollars a yr. taxes!

...................................................................................................

I am going to share with you my testing results I just completed tonight.

I know I said the system failed.... I was short-sighted in saying that . It failed in four of the 270 games I charted and handicapped .

The game loses have been small.... -12.00 , -36.00 , - 135.00 and tonight .... -370.00.

I am awed by the win stats :

The 270 games were Zumma numbers from 4,060 shooters and their REAL RECORDED , CHARTED CRAPS ROLLS WERE 34, 053.

The average win ($$$-wise ) inside Dave's LAY bets.... buying after the point number is set , on the remaining 266 games was an average win of ...............

+ $ 1,162.85 each. Times (X) the 266 games ...for a grand total of .....

+ $ 309, 319.98 !!! ...holly-moley !

Each Zumma game averaged 138 rolls and took 1 hour and 15 min. to REAL CASINO play.

hummmmmmmmmmmmm ! Thoughts ?
WWWWW
PS: Heavy, I am printing your post and will run it awhile over Zumma's Craps testing System Testing CD.... I mean I spent the 100.00 bucks for the new Zumma Cd tester so I might as well use it .
« Last Edit: 7/27/07 at 8:50 by wwwwww » Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dylanfreak
Purple
*****
member is offline




[email] [send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,427
Location: West Memphis, Arkansas

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #115 on 7/27/07 at 5:13 » [Quote]
Wow WWWWWWW,

That will buy a lot of Tacos.

Dylanfreak
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
Bob Dylan for President (Like a Rollin` Stone)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arnie
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline




[email] [send pm]

Joined: Oct 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 649

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #116 on 7/27/07 at 12:54 » [Quote]
@ Heavy.

Think this should have been a new thread.

Be that as it may be - as to your posted plan...have tried that in the past (only on WC) and I have found it lacking. I think that is what got me started trying different things and ending up with the bet I now prefer.

The fastest recovery (assuming a decent BR) would be employing a martingale on the $66 Across bet. You need two wins, at a min., to recover. One key to recovery is to remove any doubled-up winner when it hits. You cut some losses that way when you have one win on a doubled-up bet and then a 7 once again.

My main plan (which you may wish to test) is starting out with a bet of $170 Across. Once that wins I reduce to $22 inside and remove the bets as they win (playing the darkside in the main but trying to get the best of both sides). Yes, we are talking RR's here.

Logic is that the shooter will make one box number after setting the point but will only hold the dice for the 3.5 rolls he is scheduled for. The initial bet pays for the $22 inside PLUS gives me a profit even if the next roll is a 7.

I take the bets down as they win because I expect the 7. I have locked up my profits plus removed an at-risk bet. That 7 is surely due - no?

Let's say the shooter has made 1 or more my inside numbers and now makes his point. There I replace all the bets taken down. Once two or more have hit, I may replace them and then and only then start pressing the numbers OR I may add the 4 and 10 to the mix and then start pressing. I usually prefer to add the 4 and 10 first (but not always).

I hope to get 4 wins on the inside numbers. Now EVERYTHING is paid for. That's terrific!!! Adding the the 4 and 10 is not a risk. Now, once I get another win (or two) I am certainly going to consider pressing ever other bet or maybe I'll press 2-3 consecutive bets and then wait for 2 more winning rolls before pressing any further. That might be the way to go as I truly have zero dollars at-risk. Hopefully at least one of those wins is on a number that has been pressed.

In general, I want all my bets completely paid for before expanding by progressing or adding - plus having a good profit so no matter what happens next I am sitting pretty.

In real life - at a casino - it is a rare event to be able to press or expand as I have described above as my only choice is to bet RR's. So far my plan has been working well. Don't get me wrong, I have had my share of PSO's when the $170 Across was up. That's why I bring a hefty BR and have a recovery plan.

A variation would be (if I feel the shooter has what it takes) is to go back on the $170 Across and then down to $32 Across and after a few wins on the $32 Across start some pressing. I usually leave the $170 up if the shooter makes his point if I have yet to regress. That is iffy. Previous dice possession by that shooter will dictate how I proceed.

I know I am grinding and probably missing a few money-making opportunities but I find myself still at the table when others have exhausted their buy-in by pressing like mad monks while hoping (against hope most days) for that one great shooter who will make them some money .



« Last Edit: 7/27/07 at 13:00 by Arnie » Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
Postatem obscuri lateris nescitis

Come Over To the Dark Side - WE HAVE COOKIES!!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
wwwwww
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 116

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #117 on 7/27/07 at 20:37 » [Quote]
YO ALL........

Arnie, would it not be more protective , of your bank-roll, to bet the inside numbers after the point is set and then only use LAY bets .... therefore.... you only lose 25% of your bets if a point is made ...not 100% betting the PL numbers ?

Winning ALL FOUR INSIDE LAY -BETS WHEN A 7 SHOWS is the key to 3 + Capping leading into a two-wins and down ( two 7 - out's ) that is killing the real Casino numbers from RR's in the altered Dave's System that I am using.

My favorate saying :

" Get Rich In The Dark ".... Lyle Stuart

WWWWW
« Last Edit: 7/28/07 at 2:54 by wwwwww » Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arnie
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline




[email] [send pm]

Joined: Oct 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 649

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #118 on 7/28/07 at 17:04 » [Quote]

Quote:
YO ALL........

Arnie, would it not be more protective , of your bank-roll, to bet the inside numbers after the point is set and then only use LAY bets .... therefore.... you only lose 25% of your bets if a point is made ...not 100% betting the PL numbers ?

Winning ALL FOUR INSIDE LAY -BETS WHEN A 7 SHOWS is the key to 3 + Capping leading into a two-wins and down ( two 7 - out's ) that is killing the real Casino numbers from RR's in the altered Dave's System that I am using.

My favorate saying :

" Get Rich In The Dark ".... Lyle Stuart

WWWWW


I am not following you well or maybe you mis-read what I am doing.

Let me start by telling you what I am doing.

I am shunning line bets on both sides. I've taken a few beatings there and I find it in my best interest to not worry about come-out naturals or multiple points being made. Both of which will whack my DP.

I do, in fact, wait until the point is set to bet. But I make a single one-time Across bet (the 4-5-9-10 being BUY bets). Once that is resolved, I regress to the $22 Inside bet.

When the Across bet wins I make enough to place that Inside bet PLUS rack a profit. How much I win depends on what number I won on. Let's say its the 5 - I win $44 and now make a $22 bet and rack $22. The 6/8 pay me $35 and the 4/10 pay $49.

If the shooter keeps rolling I win more. If not, I am still in profit on that shooter.

The problem with Lay bets is when they lose it is very costly to recover. I'd be better off with DC's. At least they are even-money. But those nasty RR's may hit most of them then 7-out. Been there, done that.

I take my bets down as they win because that chicken feeder will probably 7-out early. So I have made $22 initially. Let's say the shooter makes 2 more numbers (the 6 and 9). There I will have made another $14 in profit plus racked back another $11. So, in total I made +22, +14, +11 for a total of $47. Not too shabby if you ask me. Worst case is a PSO. Worst return on a PSO is $13. Best return on a PSO is $27.

Bototm line is that is a shooter gets hot, am on the table with him or her. If they are a dud, I've made a few bucks from them before they pass the dice. After all, the game is all about making money - is it not?

Also, I always inquire about the number of PSO's when I first arrive at a table. If they were a bit more frequent than I like, I'll play something else until the dice go around at least on more time. PSO's, at times, can be like a wildfire-type disease. Very catching by other players. Grrrr!!!!

When you have a moment you should consider writing up a step-by-step play plan for your 3-capping and posting it. That way everyone can follow it along w/o having to wade through many multiple posts to fuly grasp it.

Keep winnng.

Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
Postatem obscuri lateris nescitis

Come Over To the Dark Side - WE HAVE COOKIES!!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
m454
White Chip Member
*
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #119 on 8/7/07 at 21:28 » [Quote]
I just joined, and began reading this thread... I am curious has anyone compared "dave's system" to any other darkside play using the same set of collected rolls? It looks to me that Dave has 3 points to his system that may lead to his success.

#1 He minimizes his losses on any one shooter
#2 He keeps his bets to the low house edge - (no 11% house edge prop bets to hedge his plays)
#3 and most important his small win to large loss strict limits. Playing PL/DP (and of course C/DC) are roughly coin flips; if you can withstand 30 tails in a row to catch 2 heads in a row of course you are going to win more sessions that you lose.

Someone try this with the same set of Rolls, head to head against Dave's system:
1.Lay the 4 and the 10 on the comeout roll for $40 each
2.$20 DP bet, lay max odds on all numbers
3.If the shooter rolls a seven relay the 4 and 10, but do not repeat a 2nd time
4.If a shooter makes 2 naturals, bet no more DP's
5.Set a strict loss limit of $2000 and walk away whenever you are up $100

or try any other system...


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Heavy
Administrator
*******
member is offline

[avatar]

"Remember to play like the pros. Get in - get up - and get gone."


[homepage] [email] [send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,068

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #120 on 8/8/07 at 23:19 » [Quote]
I highly recommend you pick up a copy of WinCraps from cloudcity software.com. Steen over there has put together a fine program for running sims. It also has one of the best "how to play craps" sections I've seen - better than most of the craps books on the market. The program is only about $25. You can download it on-line, subscribe, and Steen sends you an activation key to make the trial version fully functional. You can run a million roll sim in just seconds. Pretty dang cool.
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2fist
Green Chip Member
***
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Jun 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 30

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #121 on 8/9/07 at 17:49 » [Quote]
It's August 2007 and this system is still treating me well. I haven't been on here in awhile. I saw a question about "going back up on a shooter after one hit."

All that means is that if a shooter hit his point, and you had other dc's up and tossed a comeout seven, you would start all over. This has happened many times. The idea is not who's tossing the dice or if he made his point. The idea is that when he hits me two times, i'm taking my lay odds down.

Good luck everyone!
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
roller123
White Chip Member
*
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #122 on 9/14/07 at 15:47 » [Quote]
M454,

You meant "set a strict loss limit of $200" not $2000 right?

Roller
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arnie
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline




[email] [send pm]

Joined: Oct 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 649

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #123 on 9/15/07 at 10:23 » [Quote]

m454 when you said "lay max odds" were you thinking 2-3-4X type table or a 20x to 100X table?

Not many folks would put down a $5 line bet and then toss $500 behind it - if you know what I mean.



Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
Postatem obscuri lateris nescitis

Come Over To the Dark Side - WE HAVE COOKIES!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Golfer
Purple
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 676
Location: Chicagoland

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #124 on 5/1/09 at 12:13 » [Quote]
Just to perk things up I am bringing this back to the top.

I have not seen Dave in 4-6 months. I do not know where he is playing these days.


Golfer
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
shiraz
Green Chip Member
***
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Oct 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 63

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #125 on 5/4/09 at 18:55 » [Quote]
2 fist:
You said that Dave takes all the odds down if a shooter knocks his bets with odds twice. Does he count 4 and 10 in this two knocks or does he only count two knocks for his bets with odds ?
Thanks.
Shiraz.
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Golfer
Purple
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 676
Location: Chicagoland

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #126 on 5/4/09 at 19:07 » [Quote]
I have seen Dave take his odds only down and I have also seen him take everything down. I am proud to say he took everything down one time when I was shooting. Of course that was before I knew who he was, that being the "Dave".

Many still play his system , including 2Fist, Isgood, me and others. I do not think any of us play it exclusively.


Golfer
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
shiraz
Green Chip Member
***
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Oct 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 63

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #127 on 5/5/09 at 6:35 » [Quote]
Does Dave count 4 & 10 as two knock off bets, because they are without odds ?
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Golfer
Purple
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 676
Location: Chicagoland

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #128 on 5/5/09 at 7:46 » [Quote]
I can't remember exactly but want to say "Yes".
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Golfer
Purple
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 676
Location: Chicagoland

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #129 on 8/12/09 at 7:56 » [Quote]
Bringing this back up to the top. Have played a couple of times when Dave showed up but have not seen him for about a month.

Enjoy.
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bobby Bones
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline

[avatar]


[send pm]

Joined: Sept 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 36
Location: Welcome to My World

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #130 on 8/17/09 at 19:46 » [Quote]
I've been practicing this system a bunch lately. I've noticed that several times I will be instantly up $50 - $175 and then get whacked hard and suddenly down -$500. Can usually scratch my way back but this can take lots of time. I will be trying this live next week and I'm thinking I will walk with any instantaneous win. If I can build my 401G enough I will just increase bets and lays.

Any thoughts???

BB
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
isgood
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Feb 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 15

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #131 on 8/17/09 at 20:58 » [Quote]
BB --
There are really two keys to Dave's System:
1. If you are laying the $60 on the 6and 8-- $75 on the 5 and 9, then you must set a win limit of $200 and end the session. You can go back after a break.
2. Your buy in should be a minimum of $800-$1000. Preferably the higher amount. And be ready to go down 90% of the buy in.
You have to have the capital to have the staying power. A buy-in of $300-$500 won't make it.

Golfer is right -- the volatility can really hurt especially if you are playing on a limited time schedule. So, I do not play this system exclusively.

isgood


Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Golfer
Purple
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 676
Location: Chicagoland

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #132 on 8/18/09 at 7:47 » [Quote]
BB, Suggest you git in, git r done and git out.

Small wins add up at the end of the day.

This system is brutal on a choppy table. You lose on the DP and it seems like there is radar on to seek and destroy you DC bets.

If things switch quickly follow the rules and take down your lays after 2 hits. Just leave the flats. If it happens twice think about a break to live and fight another session/day.

Isgood plays the system well and I have seen him fill the rack in a heartbeat.

Golfer
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
lineoff
Green Chip Member
***
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Dec 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 24

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #133 on 8/18/09 at 14:31 » [Quote]
BB I completely agree with Golfer and Isgood.

I play Dave's system nearly every session and I get play up to 4 times a week.

I play it at 1/3 $ level.

They are both right the key is to stop using it if you get ahead right away.

I have had severe draw downs and have ground my way back to even but the success rate doing that is 50/50 at best if you do not increase your bet level like the "Dave" dose.

I will watch the table then jump in, if I get ahead $60 in short order I stop using Dave's system on the Randy's and switch to a min DC bet while I wait to shoot. Dave's system has not worked well for me on my own shooting. I only use it on Randy.

Good luck with it. Dave's system is a good way to have lots of action on the table at seemingly little risk. It has done wonders for my comp rating at my local joints and has done a fair job of adding to my bottom line.

LO
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Golfer
Purple
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 676
Location: Chicagoland

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #134 on 8/19/09 at 7:47 » [Quote]
Hi LO,

You posted:
"Dave's system has not worked well for me on my own shooting. I only use it on Randy."

I love it more when I shoot. One of my biggest recent wins was using it when shooting from the DP. About 2 months ago Dave appeared and started playing at the table I was at. We did well and then it got choppy. I moved to the other table when it opened and started shooting from the DP. It started to work well. Dave came over and we cleaned up. I was in a groove that allowed 4-6 or so tosses before the 7. Just enough time to get 2-3 DC bets up. Dave was laying $600 at the end and did really well. I don't have that kind of bankroll but I was happy with what I ended up with.

What I like about it is if you can find a 7 rich set that works most of the time for you, it builds confidence. How many times have we heard it is the crap between you ears?

I am currently using the P 6's. I will use it as designed or I will rotate 1-2 times based on how I am shooting that day. If double pitches creep up I will rotate 2 faces and let it rip. If I see some I will hedge with hard 6 or 8.

Keep at it with your shooting.

Golfer

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DeMango
Black Chip Member
****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Jan 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 200
Location: SouthWest Florida

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #135 on 8/19/09 at 9:31 » [Quote]
I gotta go along with golfer here. If you play at the same table for any amount of times you can chart it. Write down 288 rolls, left and right die. Input into Bone Tracker. Now you will have your 7 avoidance set for the comeout and 7 rich set for the point cycle. Sure, it is a little work for the first time, but after that, it pays and it pays. Yes you will have to make seperate files for SR1, SL1 and SO. But once that is done, it's done!

« Last Edit: 8/19/09 at 19:53 by DeMango » Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
Psalm 14:1a "The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God' "
Proverbs 12:1 "Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge, but he who hates correction is stupid."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bobby Bones
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline

[avatar]


[send pm]

Joined: Sept 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 36
Location: Welcome to My World

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #136 on 9/1/09 at 17:13 » [Quote]
Took Dave’s system for a test-drive this past week and what a wild ride it was. One high point was while collecting my chips from a seven out the shooter at sl says “Are u Dave?” No, but I think I love the guy, lol. It was Demango, always enjoy meeting fellow Dice enthusiasts. Also met Isgood and Crimson Tide earlier, always a pleasure.

After 4 successful wins and up $500+ (My win goal varied from 75-185) I was seriously whacked for a loss of $875. I lost to 4 straight cf’s then won a 4 pso which was no help another 10 12 7out one pso point of 8 , then everybody left. “WAIT COME BACK” I was thinking. No body cared. What to do? Myself and one cfer who had changed to the Don’t side and was making points like crazy. Tomorrow would be another day. I didn’t want to shoot, It had been a long day and I was tired.

Next day after a few sessions made my way back to even fairly quickly and continued once again to be up almost $700 and then whack lost 950. At one point I was down $1200 but with bases almost loaded (missing the 4) I placed a red chip to stickman and softly told him big red for the crew. He nodded and the toss was a 12, try it one more time he said thankyou ever so softly and wham 7 out pay the don’t’s. It was indeed a joyous moment. However, I tried that another time earlier and the opposite occured. Number 8 thrown was the point,ugh, First whack to I laid $60 as my DC traveled to the 8 and whack he bullfrogged it another 8. With two hits took lays down and he continued like a sharpshooter to systematically take every single bet down and 7 out, thanx for playing try again soon.


Overall,after tons of action I was down less than $200. I made some money on myself and some other unknown Di’s so in the end I was up about $28 hmm $4 dollars a day lol.

Next time I may be a little more patient and qualify the table before jumping in. Dave might be at an advantage, being at the Boats at opening while nobody is warmed up or tuned in or I don’t know.

BB

« Last Edit: 9/1/09 at 17:15 by Bobby Bones » Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Golfer
Purple
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 676
Location: Chicagoland

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #137 on 9/1/09 at 17:59 » [Quote]
"Took Dave’s system for a test-drive this past week and what a wild ride it was. One high point was while collecting my chips from a seven out the shooter at sl says “Are u Dave?”

LOL

Congrats on your excellent adventure.

If you go back and read 2fists earlier posts you can see that Dave would leave if he hit his goal. He really did. The system can drain cash almost as fast as a hop bet. Choppy tables are tough. Warm randies are a disaster. You will find your way that's right for you.

It is fun isn't it? I do the same with the hop bets on the Red.


Golfer
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bobby Bones
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline

[avatar]


[send pm]

Joined: Sept 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 36
Location: Welcome to My World

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #138 on 9/1/09 at 19:30 » [Quote]
Golfer;
I actually never stayed long enough to reach the $200 goal. If I won on the first shooter, even it was $85 I was gone. I have to wonder if I would have been better off and staying til I reached the goal? It was more than fun and kind of crazy to be flipping out $75 here $60 there. Can't wait to head back and do it again. Hopefully with some slightly better results
BB
« Last Edit: 9/1/09 at 20:15 by Bobby Bones » Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
6dollar6
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 72
Location: Illinois

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #139 on 9/2/09 at 13:17 » [Quote]
Dave is serious about the game.

A couple of weeks back I was at his table, and he struck gold on my hand.

I'm always glad to see a fellow crapsplayer win.

The problem for me was, I was shooting from the do side.

6dollar6
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bobby Bones
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline

[avatar]


[send pm]

Joined: Sept 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 36
Location: Welcome to My World

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #140 on 9/2/09 at 15:54 » [Quote]
Is Dave aware that his system is here and that he is semi famous?
BB
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Golfer
Purple
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 676
Location: Chicagoland

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #141 on 9/2/09 at 16:11 » [Quote]
I do not think Dave knows how much we talk about his play. I don't think he cares. He is a nice guy. He tokes the dealers and doesn't make a fuss.

Despite what Heavy says, I don't know if being talked about here makes you famous.

LOL $6 6, I have done the same. I have had Dave back off when I shot well but seems like he has made more on me than lost. Oh well.


Golfer
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
isgood
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Feb 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 15

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #142 on 9/24/09 at 16:17 » [Quote]
I gotta tell you what happened tonight. I bought in for $330. I thought I had $350. Oh well.
I was on a table they said was cold. I wanted to try the pass line with $30 odds even on the randies. One loss followed by another then I was thinking of transitioning to the don'ts, but wanted to give it one more try. All the tables were $10. So the next shooter throws a 7, then a 3, then a 11, then a 2, then a 12, then a 2. I am not kidding. I gave up and left the table. I just don't have the nuts that Heavy has to play the horn numbers./
The next table I'm still trying to play my plan. Pass line with $30 odds. I hit one pass line winner(BTW I never tossed--was always behind the dice). Then started to lose. So, I went to the third table.
Here I was up and down with the pass line winners and losers.
Then this feeling came over me. I was watching at least three shooters just chunk them down the table. So I changed the plan and bet a DP. The number was a 6. I layed $24. I mentally pretend to do the Dave' System. The shooter hit the nine twice and the 5 twice. But I just was DP on the 6. He tosses a 7 and I am a winner.
The next guy is in the hook next to the dealer way across the table from me. He could have been a rhythm roller. He swipes the dice against his wall and picks them up and shakes them in his hand and tosses them nicely down the table. I didn't know this so I was on the DP. He sets the 10. Now I know we don't take odds on the 4 and 10. But I'm figuring I won't be betting on any thing else so I lay $20 odds. There was a delay at this point and again this feeling came over me(you know after watching the dice, the table, the shooters some how you get these feelings)
I decided to bet the DC and go with the full Dave's System.

The guy rolls a 9. I lay $60. The dealer ask me twice what to do since no one was even close to playing the don'ts. He was confused. Next roll was a 6. DC traveled and I layed $60. Next roll was a 5. I lay another $60. At this point all the inside players on both sides of the table are getting excited. Shooter rolls an 8. I lay my final $60. I have about $9 now in from of me and the table is really excited since they see this guy could be on a really good roll since he is throwing box numbers. Now that I have all the numbers covered except the 4, I'm thinking this might be the guy who I tell Golfer about how I stood back and got picked off and at the same time I'm wondering where the hell is the 7.

He rolled a 7 on the very next toss. The lady next to me said that could not have worked out any more perfectly. I smiled and said yep since I wasn't even on the DC.

I hit my win goal so I left. I has been a long time since I was full Dave and the bases loaded.

isgood
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bobby Bones
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline

[avatar]


[send pm]

Joined: Sept 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 36
Location: Welcome to My World

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #143 on 10/1/09 at 20:08 » [Quote]
Good Job Is;
Was the adrenalin flowing?? Bases loaded! How sweet it is.

I went today, first trip in awhile, 2 tables open both full, I managed to squeeze in straight out. I was a nervous wreck. Shooter at sL1 setting the dice tossing nicely waited patiently for the devil and bought in for $500. Sweet older lady gets dice (can I possibly bet against this sweet lil lady, YES) and I jump in. $10 DP toss is six. Lay $60 & $ 10 DC bang 7 out. I'm up $50 bucks and am thinking I should go but here comes the suit with my players card "Good Luck Robert blah blah blah How can I leave now. Older dude next to me says "i new I shouldn't of bet on the old bat" I says "yeah she sucks lol, thinking that i hope her husband does as well. Hubby chunks the dice down point is 6. OK lets go, lay $60 w 10 on DC next 9 lay $75 $10 dc next number 6 pay the line and ouch. Ok Dc goes to 6 lay60 bang 6 down w the lays and in the end win $10 on the nine. So now I'm really wishing I had left w the $50 win. Next shooter threw 3 numbers some crap numbers as well and I'm on em he whacks the 5 ugh, then sevens out, phew. I'm back to $80 up color in. I was there less than 15 minutes. Adrenalin was pumping, first trip and didn't want to lose. Well, I guess you never want to lose.

I thought a bunch about my last trip and realized that my two losing sessions started out badly, one of them I lost to the first 3 shooters but kept going. Now i'vd amended my gameplan to if i'm down $3 - 4 hundred tomorow is another day. If I had done that last trip I would have ended up in the Black. Seems like it is just tooo tough to scratch your way back. Thankyou Dave
BB
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Golfer
Purple
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 676
Location: Chicagoland

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #144 on 10/2/09 at 16:32 » [Quote]
It can get ugly but it sure can be pretty.

However, lately here in Chicago it has been a warm wind blowing and I have lessened my darkside play and increased the rightside.

I had a 4 # fire bet winner at HET in Joliet Sunday with 6$6.

The cold wind will blow again.

Good job. Congrats.


Golfer
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CONTINUED...

User avatar
$5Bill
Posts: 1321
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:31 pm

Re: Dave's System

Post by $5Bill » Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:45 am

PART 4


Golfer
Purple
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 676
Location: Chicagoland

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #145 on 10/3/09 at 15:35 » [Quote]
The warm wind continues. I had 3 darkside bets that won in a 1 hr session. Made 30% for the session and would have made more if I could pull the trigger better and transition quicker. Had a nice roll of my own with 3 points. Darksiders beware in Chicago for the time being.


Golfer
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bobby Bones
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline

[avatar]


[send pm]

Joined: Sept 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 36
Location: Welcome to My World

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #146 on 10/6/09 at 15:26 » [Quote]
A bumpy road for sure. After a real grind and being close to $500 loss limit I was happy to leave down only $15 ,proceeded to next joint. Ouch down $545 had to call it a night.
Returned this morning up $120 proceeded to next stop up $100 color in and onto next up $65 and then to final destination before lunch up $35. Counting the + $80 I started out with I'm still down with the system -$160.
It's been a real grind lately. While waiting to buy in fellow tossed 5,9,8,7. Wish I had arrived minutes sooner. Of course i buy in next cf throw 3 8's in a row. Never started out with a quick win seems like every time is a grind. Hopefully it will change
I had one decent hand from SR1. Too much Tuma but managed a small win. I'be been keepin "Daves chips" in one rack and mine in the other.
Search for cold table continues
Thanx Dave
BB
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bobby Bones
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline

[avatar]


[send pm]

Joined: Sept 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 36
Location: Welcome to My World

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #147 on 10/7/09 at 19:55 » [Quote]
New day and smoother road. First stop up $60 only down $100. Next destination +110, woohoo finally back into the black. Next two stops were great. Both times while waiting to buy in the shooter made his point. I bought in at this time and jumped in. Both times shooter tossed some Numbers and kindly sevened out. Up $160 and up$180 The dust settles and Dave's system has gotten me up to + $350.
If anybody has read MP's thread on Dice Institute "Dodging the Bullet" He goes into the odds of making the first pass and how the odds against making the 2nd pass increase dramatically. Probably why casinos enjoy the fire bet. Am considering holding back on Dave's system until shooter makes first pass and then jump in. It worked out very well today. If I had jumped in a few minutes earlier I probably would have been whacked 2x and taken lays down before 7 out.
Any thoughts from the other Dave fans???
Have had 2 losing sessions vs 9 winners. The fact that I've limited my losses to around $500 or less seems to be working out.
Thanx Dave
BB
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Golfer
Purple
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 676
Location: Chicagoland

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #148 on 10/8/09 at 7:52 » [Quote]
Congrats.

Waiting could be an option if the table trend shows it. If not you will miss out.

As to the %'s, I was in Vegas shortly after MP 1st published those stats. I was cruising along at the (casino name deleted per ProBoards TOS) when 3 kids came to the table. I won on the 1st one and then one of the girls went on a tear and I chased for the 1st 3-4-5points or so. I layed off points 6, 7 and 8 and then jumped in to get my money back. Hey, the %'s were in my favor right?

I lost a ton as she continued to make points. Biggest and worst burnout for me ever. Use caution. I like the Dave rule of 2 losers and pull the odds.

Good Luck


Golfer
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bobby Bones
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline

[avatar]


[send pm]

Joined: Sept 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 36
Location: Welcome to My World

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #149 on 10/8/09 at 18:45 » [Quote]
Golfer,
Yes, imho, absolutely pull the plug after 2 whacks. I tried the jumping in after one point was made and it worked out well only one stop today and one shooter and up $95. In this instance I would have been whacked twice or more if I had jumped in earlier, but of course when u see those 3 4 or 5 numbers tosses and seven out you will definitely wonder about the old shoulda woulda coulda. It's all good.
Thanx Dave
BB
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bobby Bones
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline

[avatar]


[send pm]

Joined: Sept 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 36
Location: Welcome to My World

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #150 on 10/9/09 at 20:47 » [Quote]

As I stepped up to the table I noticed one dude with several black chips on the DP, possibly 6 or 8, not sure. He looked content, He was in a happy place, the point was 4. No sweat, but you guessed it, Bang FOUR, THE EASY WAY PAY THE LINE, ouch I felt his pain but we don't lay the four but still it hurt. I bought in and place my $10 DP, he looked at it and put $5 on the pass line. Shooter throws a 5, black chip dude loads up the odds as well as the 6 and 8, he used all his chips. Next toss 9 then 11 then 7 out pay the don'ts. Up $110, thanx Dave
BB
Check out my video click on Watch my Video beow
View My Video
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bobby Bones
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline

[avatar]


[send pm]

Joined: Sept 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 36
Location: Welcome to My World

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #151 on 10/10/09 at 19:18 » [Quote]
Started out on the downside but scratched my way back to even and then up $110. However, as circumstance had it I had to stick around awhile and tried it again and when the dust settled I was down $565. Oh, the humanity! I wish dave could come by and slap me on the side of my head. I stayed too long. a great looking month and now I'm down $10 instead of being up $675. A lesson learned. My own stupidity not the Dave's system.
BB
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
isgood
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Feb 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 15

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #152 on 10/10/09 at 21:57 » [Quote]
Hey BB, I too have been enamoured by this Dave's System. BUT I have learned that playing it exclusively doesn't work. Except for Dave himself. This from the stories we are told. I have not had a conversation with him. Remember, he doesn't set a loss limit and when he loses the first $1000. He keeps digging with another $2000. And he increases his lay bets considerably. So, if you are not that commited with your time AND $3000, then you have to play both the DP and the pass line.

I have done that and at the same time I see some trends and I feel the temperature of the table. This doesn't always work but I'm not up to the possibility of a $3000 loss and I don't have the many many hours that Dave seems to have. Here in New Orleans, it is all RRs so I go to the donts more often, but I do get in some pass line wagers. If you stand there long enough, a streak will come.

isgood
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Golfer
Purple
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 676
Location: Chicagoland

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #153 on 10/11/09 at 7:39 » [Quote]
Saw Dave yesterday. He got there just before I was leaving. I walked over to his table and watched for a minute. $5 flat and $150 odds. No odds on the 4 or 10. He won the hand I watched but did get knocked off 2x. He has either changed his play to 3x and take the odds down, or miscounted. Anyway he had a DP up with 3 DC bets.

I had 2 sessions and an overall losing day. Darkside shooting was ok. PL shooting was not good. Best hand was 3 pts. Had 3 PSO for the day that hurt, especially 2 in a row at the end. Wanted to try and dig out of the hole but I don't do that anymore. It usually doesn't work.

Will try to see Isgood this week in NOLA for some Southern Dave's Play.

Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bobby Bones
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline

[avatar]


[send pm]

Joined: Sept 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 36
Location: Welcome to My World

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #154 on 10/11/09 at 20:12 » [Quote]
I don't have the 3 G's either I suppose if you just kept going eventually u would hit the cold streak. For now I am waiting for someone to make a pass line point, then I jump in. Almost any win will close down shop for the system. Today I was at myspot at SR1. Hit $110 profit after one whack and that was it. However, Bobby bones lost $107 but it was an improvment over my Five, 5, Cinco, yes FIVE pso's yesterday. Golfer u only had three but I feel ur pain but imagine 5. The dude next to me said wow thats two in a row, I told him it was three but thanx for bringing that to my attention, lol, he wasnt around to see the last two. It's all good. Was hoping to meet some old friends at the Heavy party but looks like I won't be able to make it. Maybe next time
Thanx Dave
BB
« Last Edit: 10/11/09 at 20:15 by Bobby Bones » Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heavy
Administrator
*******
member is offline

[avatar]

"Remember to play like the pros. Get in - get up - and get gone."


[homepage] [email] [send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,068

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #155 on 10/14/09 at 7:56 » [Quote]
I've had good success playing my "modified" Dave' system, which consists of $10 flat bets and $30 Lay bets. Lessens the bankroll volatility somewhat, and it's great when you get the "bases loaded" then the shooter sevens out. Everyone else's money gets raked while yours gets stacked and handed back. It's a beautiful thing.
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Golfer
Purple
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 676
Location: Chicagoland

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #156 on 10/21/09 at 7:41 » [Quote]
The adventure to NOLA and the meet with Isgood went ok.

My 1st hand was good and I was up +$160 after 20 minutes. Thought about quitting but continued to play. Ended up a small loser that session when the table turned mildly warm, at least enough to start picking off Isgood and my DP/DC bets.

A 2nd session after breakfast went better with a win to offset the earlier loss and for the trip to NOLA I ended up $30. Better than a loss I suppose.

Dave's system kicks butt...........until a table turns warm.

Disappointed at (casino name deleted per ProBoards TOS). They will actually take you off the clock when not betting while waiting for the dice. WTF? They got a lousy 5x odds game and only hardway hop bets and they act like it was the best game in the country. Disappointing.


Golfer
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
winterwolf
Black Chip Member
****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Jun 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 161

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #157 on 10/21/09 at 15:18 » [Quote]
Yo Golfer / All... Good Day......

Thank you for your play-by-play on Dave's System and your imput on (casino name deleted per ProBoards TOS) player tracking.

Since Harraha's went private, and in order to pay the + $ 93,000,000.000 compensation and bonus to the head -screw-off at Harrah's, in 2008, they seem to be short- changing thier players ?

It has really pissed-off (casino name deleted per ProBoards TOS) employees...cutting thier hours so screw-off can extort the big bucks ! :-X

Golfer / anybody...I am going to (casino name deleted per ProBoards TOS) Lake Tahoe next week and flying to (casino name deleted per ProBoards TOS) Reno in late Nov. I have 8,000 player points so far in 2009 but I need to get 2,000 more points, before the end of the year, to qualify for Diamond-card status for 2010.

Will (casino name deleted per ProBoards TOS) rate a player who bets + 100.00 on both PL and the DP lines ...ie;...doey-don'ts ?
W7
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heavy
Administrator
*******
member is offline

[avatar]

"Remember to play like the pros. Get in - get up - and get gone."


[homepage] [email] [send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,068

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #158 on 10/21/09 at 21:31 » [Quote]
(casino name deleted per ProBoards TOS) rates doey-don't players as having $1 in action. That's effectively no rating.
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
winterwolf
Black Chip Member
****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Jun 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 161

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #159 on 10/21/09 at 23:38 » [Quote]
Hi,

Heavy, ok....tks.... my gaming partner and I can get rated at 100.00 each by playing both sides at 100.00 each ?

W7
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Golfer
Purple
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 676
Location: Chicagoland

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #160 on 10/22/09 at 7:40 » [Quote]
w7, maybe but they will probably catch on soon. HET sucks if you play table games.

Golfer
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
winterwolf
Black Chip Member
****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Jun 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 161

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #161 on 10/22/09 at 16:15 » [Quote]
Hi,

Yeah....it probally is not a good idea to play both sides. I am going to play my latest nuts-and-bolts aACraps System...

" CANNOT LOSE AFTER DC NUMBER-TRAVELS CRAPS SYSTEM "

I fused John Patrick's Ricochet System to Larry Edell's 100% Craps hedging System.

After back-testing 1,000's of rolls through Zumma's craps system tester book, I added a rule to wait until a double appears ( 5-5,6-6,4-4,8-8,...etc;... ) and a good-complete play passes behind it before betting into this new system.

Even though I will not be betting on every hand, when I do bet most DC and Lay-bets will be in the 100's of $$$$ ....but hedged at 100% .

(casino name deleted per ProBoards TOS) comps well...they are sending me Reno air tickets RFB and 3 nights comped.

Yesterday, I reciecved a + $ 300.00 gift certifiacate to GUCCI'S at (casino name deleted per ProBoards TOS) (casino name deleted per ProBoards TOS) + free rooms......Wow ! ....the Casino's are hurting for business OR WHAT ?

W7



Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bobby Bones
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline

[avatar]


[send pm]

Joined: Sept 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 36
Location: Welcome to My World

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #162 on 10/27/09 at 17:40 » [Quote]
Wow, I spent many hours over 3 week period at the IP laying 60 on 6 n 8 and 75 on 5 n 9 staying flat on 4 n 10. Not as much as u WWW but it can be at times a sizeable (for me anyhow) amount. Went to buffet and had a whopping $3.00. I figured they don't care about the lay bets.
It's all good for me. The comps would be great but winning some $$ is my main plan. Looking forward to ur trip report.
BB
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DeMango
Black Chip Member
****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Jan 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 200
Location: SouthWest Florida

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #163 on 10/27/09 at 22:50 » [Quote]
In theory there would be no difference in what numbers we lay, the odds stay the same. I think if I ever get serious about playing this I would lay the 4/10 and not the 6/8. I can avoid the former a whole lot easier than the latter. Less variance is good!!
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
Psalm 14:1a "The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God' "
Proverbs 12:1 "Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge, but he who hates correction is stupid."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Golfer
Purple
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 676
Location: Chicagoland

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #164 on 10/30/09 at 19:11 » [Quote]
Demango, you are right but those 4's and 10's can be just brutal.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

isgood
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Feb 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 15

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #165 on 10/31/09 at 10:33 » [Quote]
Demango, I hear what you say about not laying the 6 or 8 and instead laying the 4 or 10. But then it wouldn't be "Dave's System". It would be "Demango's System".
Also, laying the 4 and 10 just plain costs too much and when it is whacked the come back can take twice as long. Coming back from a whacked 6 or 8 is a lot easier and you haven't lost that much when taken in relationship with the pay off.

Mainly, the goal when playing the full Dave'System is to get paid $50 from each lay bet win. Hence, the $60 lay on the 6 and 8 and the $75 lay on the 5 and 9. So, a $100 lay on the 4 and 10 is too expensive and you can be down $200-$300 real fast when laying the 4 or 10.
I would much rather think I saved $100 each time the 4or 10 gets picked off.

isgood
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DeMango
Black Chip Member
****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Jan 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 200
Location: SouthWest Florida

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #166 on 11/1/09 at 0:28 » [Quote]
Thanks for the replies guys but here is where I'm coming from. I have a book of rolls from a table you all were at a few weeks ago. These 600 rolls tell me I have a 4 to 1 advantage over the 4, a two and 1/2 advantage over the 5 but only two to one on the 6. These figures are much better than normal odds, some are twice as good! I may be totally off base as far as making money is concerned but If you can double the normal rate of the seven in relation to the 4 the large lay will not be whacked that often, once in five attempts if I figure it right. So for every $100 I lose, I win $200. Finding the set to establish the four in the first place - now there is the devil in the details!
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
Psalm 14:1a "The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God' "
Proverbs 12:1 "Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge, but he who hates correction is stupid."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Sept 2004
Gender: Male
Posts: 80
Location: Ohio

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #167 on 11/1/09 at 18:16 » [Quote]
Some perspective on where Dont losses can be most likely.

MP had one of his articles regarding playing DP with multiple DC's Odds on all.
I believe it was when he gave the Devil's Foray a test run.
His losses were mostly from the 6/8's.
His bread and butter wins were the Outside numbers.

If I get a 6/8 DP, I go for an Outside DC to Lay - doesn't matter which Outie.
From recollection in casino and practice records, I shudder to think what my losses would be by Laying 6/8's

DeMango's stats correlate pretty much with what I experience.

I use the anti-S6-all-Sevens, which has no 5/9's on-axis, and the PF hits can be a good side profit center, same for a Field-Harvest strategy.
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
isgood
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Feb 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 15

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #168 on 11/2/09 at 12:55 » [Quote]
Demango and Bob, correct me if I am wrong, but I think you are talking about only your tosses. And betting appropriately on your own tosses is the ultimate advice on this board.
However, I cannot apply your statistics you spoke of re the 4, 5 and 10 to Dave's System.
The system calls for betting on RRs continously. So, lay betting so much on the 4 and 10 can put you is a deep hole. And many times I have been glad that I didn't lay the 4 or 10.

isgood
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DeMango
Black Chip Member
****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Jan 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 200
Location: SouthWest Florida

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #169 on 11/3/09 at 1:58 » [Quote]
Yes sir, using my figures from my rolls at (casino name deleted per ProBoards TOS). Too bad I was shooting the other way. Live and learn.
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
Psalm 14:1a "The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God' "
Proverbs 12:1 "Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge, but he who hates correction is stupid."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Sept 2004
Gender: Male
Posts: 80
Location: Ohio

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #170 on 11/8/09 at 22:50 » [Quote]
Isgood,
I've been on the road.
You is correct in that I speak of my tosses.
Sorry for interrupting the flow of the Thread.

I played (casino name deleted per ProBoards TOS) StL this past Friday:
The 6/8's from all shooters, were not repeating. Laying them would definitely been profitable for the 2 hour Session I was in on.
On the other hand, I did alright by Laying the 4/10s. The table was nice and cold and remained that way with few and short exceptions.
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bobby Bones
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline

[avatar]


[send pm]

Joined: Sept 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 36
Location: Welcome to My World

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #171 on 12/2/09 at 12:27 » [Quote]
Just back from a week in Vegas. Arrived at packed hot table at (casino name deleted per ProBoards TOS) bought in at the hook. Cfer on obvious hot roll 3 numbers lit up w/ fire bet. Decided to wait, he tosses one more pass and several repeaters before the seven out. Phew, glad I waited He colored in and left, a smart move i thought. Ok, so the table has to go cold now, right? Next shooter PSO. Ok lets go.

Thinking for the right terminology here, hmmm, crash and burn, annihilation, obliteration ouch?

Got to almost bases loaded on next two shooters who then systematically picked em off like a sharpshooter. Tried it again and again before my Stubborn thick headed self decided to leave but not after hanging around awhile to watch the table stay hot. Never cooled off until I finally bet with the crowd. ugh.
Not deterred tried it again at the Paris, same story. Down $1200 first night. Is it time to go home yet?
Next morning at (casino name deleted per ProBoards TOS) waiting for Buffet to open. i'm the only one at the table. Up a little , down a little even.It's all good, no heat , trying to zone in my toss.

Here comes Mr cfer buying in for $20. I think , OK, lets go Dave. He establishes point of 8. Next toss 8.

My dc goes to eight, lay it, bingo come out roll 8! Well i've been whacked 2 x but he can't possibly throw another 8, I keep going and he tosses 5, yes FIVE, Cinco 8's in a row.

Next day enjoyed breakfast with Hotshooter and his lovely wife at the (casino name deleted per ProBoards TOS). Talked about Dave as well as other DI stuff. We proceeded to the table where we were both slammed really hard. We could just look at each other in disbelief. We Recouped some of the $$ on our own tosses.

I finally divorced Dave after getting $1600 down. A wise decision as I dont ever recall seeing soooo many rr's on sooo many hot rolls. I saw a few choppy tables maybe one cold table the entire week.

I spent the remainder of the week just betting on myself when I could find a empty table which was easy in the 7am hour and squeaked out bunches of small wins for a $500+ win a small dent in my initial losses.

Thanx for coming to BB's pity party
lol



I'm thinking that Demango and Bob are on the right track here.
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heavy
Administrator
*******
member is offline

[avatar]

"Remember to play like the pros. Get in - get up - and get gone."


[homepage] [email] [send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,068

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #172 on 12/2/09 at 16:20 » [Quote]
I finally divorced Dave after getting $1600 down. A wise decision as I dont ever recall seeing soooo many rr's on sooo many hot rolls. I saw a few choppy tables maybe one cold table the entire week.

So much for the shaved dice theory.

Nice report, BB. Yeah, when old Dave's system works it's a beautiful thing. When it doesn't . . . well, you found out about that.
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DeMango
Black Chip Member
****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Jan 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 200
Location: SouthWest Florida

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #173 on 12/3/09 at 11:33 » [Quote]
Bobby;
It's times like these that I love to quote Bill Clinton; "I feel your pain"!

I think it is time to put away the voodoo about one aspect of Dave's System, the not laying the 4 or 10. All lays have the same odds, measured in .ev: zero. Dave chose to reduce some of his volatility by not laying those. You could reduce your volatility even further by just laying the 4, 5, 9, and 10. However, I love what MP recently said about volatility and I quote it here; "Frankly though, my attitude is that if you can't stand any volatility; then it's probably better to stay at home eating cheeseburgers and farting into the sofa cushion; because volatility is very much a part of this game (and trying to 'control' it is a fool's errand)." Great stuff!!

A better bet is of course to go Heavy's route and cut the odds in half for RR's and play at odd hours to get to shoot more often, or just look for less populated tables.
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
Psalm 14:1a "The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God' "
Proverbs 12:1 "Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge, but he who hates correction is stupid."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hotshooter
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: May 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 210

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #174 on 12/3/09 at 22:16 » [Quote]
I got killed with this system in Vegas last weekend. I can relate heavy. What bailed me out was my shooting and copule of dice pals.
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Golfer
Purple
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 676
Location: Chicagoland

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #175 on 12/4/09 at 10:29 » [Quote]
Yeah D you can run into the wall with this play, yet at times it feels so good and piles the chips up fast. I believe you gotta take the lays down after 2 whacks. I did last night and it helped. Of course once the next roll was a 7.

Glad the shooting helped.

Golfer
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
isgood
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Feb 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 15

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #176 on 12/4/09 at 15:44 » [Quote]
Hi everyone!. Been on vacation last few weeks(Argentina & Chili). Had a great time.
As for Dave's System, I still believe if you are willing to put up with the volatility, you can do well. Having said that I found that after a while there will be a shooter that will throw and throw and throw. So, I am sort of counting the tosses for each shooter and if they get past a reasonable number of tosses, it time to go to the right side.

Remember, I have added a rule. If it has been cold at the table and the next shooter is setting the dice, I am probably not going to do the Dave's System. Also pretty much if anyone is setting and has a nice toss(rythmic) I won't bet the System.

Yeah, I know Golfer, what about the over-the-head-hook-shot guy? I saw the guy in Biloxi. He was a loud mouth. Also, I would have increased my bets the next time he tossed like that. He couldn't have two good rolls in a row?

isgood
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Golfer
Purple
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 676
Location: Chicagoland

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #177 on 12/6/09 at 8:06 » [Quote]
"He couldn't have two good rolls in a row?"

Yeah he did.

Never say never. The moon and stars were in alignment for the randies.

Dave's system works in a chill. When the warm winds blow it is time to bail or reduce down to a single bet with odds on the DP or maybe a DC.


Golfer
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DeMango
Black Chip Member
****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Jan 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 200
Location: SouthWest Florida

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #178 on 12/7/09 at 13:06 » [Quote]
I think the point about the system is that there is a built in negative progression that you are not taking into account. When the table has a warm moment and the buy in disappears, then more money comes out and higher bets are made. This is my understanding from way back when. The later reports here make no mention of this only disaster on the original buy in then escape.

What needs to be done is to manage your lays in accordance with your session bankroll. your trip bankroll and your lifetime bankroll. If Dave (at that time) layed $60 on the 5, 6, 8, and 9, that was his estimate of his loss tolerance, his bankroll and the variance. I like the system, it's not me, but in everything we have to think things all the way through before we walk in others footsteps.
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
Psalm 14:1a "The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God' "
Proverbs 12:1 "Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge, but he who hates correction is stupid."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
lotlobber
White Chip Member
*
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 6

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #179 on 12/10/09 at 20:56 » [Quote]
This was the first thread I read, and the first 3 pages had me sweating. Is the system really as good as it looked at that point? I noticed as the thread went, it became more one person's system, or another person's system, and less the Dave system first posted. For those of you who consistently (preferably mostly) play the Dave, and it's variations, is it being profitable, or kinda so-so? Can a fella be a consistent winner with it (as Dave does it or the 2Fist variation), or is it more for stalling when waiting thru CFers? Cause even Cy Young winners have days where they couldn't hit a bull in the butt with a bass fiddle. Good to have that backstop.

I don't mind a system that wins in a couple minutes, it's a long drive for me. Just means I get home for dinner...lol. I can also stay as long as it takes, but I lack Dave's apparently immense monetary staying power.

Has anyone tried running the numbers on this system just switching the 6/8 with 4/10? No other changes from the way Dave plays it. Maybe also using 2Fist's variation with the way lower stop loss (me likey the lower BR requirements for that).

In the discussion about Mr. Patrick's observations about very small percentage wins, he has a good point. But if your win goal is 10% of your loss limit, say with a $100 loss limit and a $10 win goal, you have to win 91% of your games to make a $10 profit. That's whale of a winning percentage. Statistically speaking, is it remotely reasonable to expect that kind of win rate? If you only win 9 out of 10, you're still down a ten spot. Even with a 20% goal (like 2Fists' $200WG/$1000SL) it still requires a shade under 84% winning games. You guys who use this...are you getting these kinds of numbers? Or is it an overall loser?

But 2Fist seemed to be doing great. Hopefully it's still consistently working.

Is 2Fist still on the board? Looks like he hasn't posted in some time.

Great thread. Love to know how Dave is making out, and how his system is working for everyone.

Thanks,
LL

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Heavy
Administrator
*******
member is offline

[avatar]

"Remember to play like the pros. Get in - get up - and get gone."


[homepage] [email] [send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,068

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #180 on 12/10/09 at 21:37 » [Quote]
Golfer, Fisher and a few others know Dave or have watched his play and can better tell you what's happening there than I. Isgood plays a scaled down version of the strategy on a regular basis and does pretty well with it. I play my own scaled down mutant variety when tables are running cold with fair success - it's brought me back from the brink on many occasions. On the other hand, it's pushed me over the edge a time or two as well . . .
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
lotlobber
White Chip Member
*
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 6

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #181 on 12/10/09 at 23:29 » [Quote]
But does your scaled down mutant make you more than it loses? That's the thing.

Thanks,
LL
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Golfer
Purple
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 676
Location: Chicagoland

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #182 on 12/11/09 at 20:54 » [Quote]
Dave's system is no guarantee to riches, though Dave has made big bucks.

He also had a good size bankroll to be able to go 3x into the stash.

He does stop betting at times and his pulling down the lays hlps conserve cash.

I suggest if you want to try it start with min flats and 2 x odds and limit it to 1dp and 2 dc bets. Take it for a test drive and see how it feels.

Good Luck
Golfer
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Golfer
Purple
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 676
Location: Chicagoland

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #183 on 12/12/09 at 15:40 » [Quote]
I Am Dumb...Dave Is Smart.....Dave Loves Me Shooting

Got to the table 5 minutes after the opening and two players SOL just yapping no playing. Ask what's going on? Why no play? No shooter. One of the guys talking was Dave. He don't shoot and the other guy didn't want to. OK, we can fix that. I slide in to my spot at SL1 and buy in. Dice come to me and I say we will start on the DP in honor of Dave. I 7 out 5 times in a row and Dave tells me he wishes everyone could shoot as good as me. The 6th time I shoot myself twice and pull the lays and then of course 7 out with just the flats. A couple of shooters come to give me a break and even though I am up 30% I stay.
Dumb #1.

I get the dice again and 7 out but it takes some time and I whack one of my DC bets. I am stopping at 2 DC's, Dave is doing 3 and sometimes 4. It takes a while and I decide to shoot the next round from the PL. Dumb #2. I think I had 4-5 rolls. Next time I do it again and have a decent roll and get myself out of the hole and back up 20%.

More shooters come and Dave and I do well catching a nice little streak and then wham. A guy SOR hits 6 6's in a row on us and we are smacked down. Dave buys in for another big chunk even though he has about $1,000 left. I soon see why. He ups his lays to $600.

I learned my lesson and shoot from the DP again but take myself out with a big lay. I lay the 5 on the comeout and take myself out on that.

I keep shooting and Dave gets up on 4 DC bets each with $900 lays plus his DP. I finally hit the 7 and Dave is all smiles and soon colors up with a bunch of purple.

I stay 1 more round and leak and finally color up down 50%. Dumb #3 for staying too long. Walking to the cage a roulette table has 3 of my numbers showing in the last 4 rolls. I buy in and start playing and hit 4 out of the next 6 rolls and color up a winner, wiping out my craps loss and putting me up for the day. I cash in, look in the lounge, run a $20 thru a vp and lose 10 and go back and buy in at the other table and color up a fast winner of 20%. Stop by roulette again and there are a couple of my numbers and I make a fast 20%. I buy in 1 more time and lose at craps and end up the day a winner but not a big one.

Dave put the pedal to the metal today at the right time and will sleep well courtesy of the Golfer. The 6's were killers for the middle part of the day. The darkside is fun. Shooting from the darkside is fun. I wish I could have made more but a win is a win. Stayed too long. Got to buy an egg timer or set my cell to loud and max out sessions at 1 to 2 hours.


Later
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
lotlobber
White Chip Member
*
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 6

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #184 on 12/12/09 at 17:28 » [Quote]
Nothing is a guarantee to riches. Just ask all the people who jumped onto the house flipping band wagon the end of 2007.

I don't mind grinding. I just need to know something is a consistent winner.

Do you have roulette system, or was that just catching "luck"?

Thanks,
LL
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Golfer
Purple
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 676
Location: Chicagoland

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #185 on 12/12/09 at 19:35 » [Quote]
My roulette system is birthdays for the wife, kids, me and Mom, along with the zeros. Mom taught me the zeros when she brought me in a casino in Puerto Rico when I was 16 years old. I looked older. :D :D Try doing that nowadays.

When a number hits press. Works at times. Roulette is a hit 'n run adventure.

When I get a hit I usually try to get green in my payoff and never use them. Today I hit the wife's B'day with $6 straight up. $210. I took $200 in green and walked with them in my pocket.
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Golfer
Purple
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 676
Location: Chicagoland

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #186 on 12/12/09 at 19:39 » [Quote]
"I just need to know something is a consistent winner."


If you don't shoot the dice I doubt you or anyone can be a consistent winner. Dave is an exception........big time.


There isn't any holy grail.



Good Luck

Golfer
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bobby Bones
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline

[avatar]


[send pm]

Joined: Sept 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 36
Location: Welcome to My World

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #187 on 12/15/09 at 21:31 » [Quote]
Lotlobber,
Look on eBay for a roulette DVD by John Patrick. It was the best $10 investment I ever made. If u find a consistent winner system please let me know.
BB
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2fist
Green Chip Member
***
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Jun 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 30

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #188 on 1/7/10 at 15:00 » [Quote]
Hello All!

It's been a loooooooong while since I've been on here, let alone posted! I GOT BIT by the poker bug!

Indeed I immersed myself heavily (no pun intended "Heavy") into Texas Hold Em'. I thoroughly enjoy it. That being said, I found myself at the (casino name deleted per ProBoards TOS) last night waiting on the list to get on a table for poker. I headed across the floor to the dice tables. I think a couple of the dealers there almost fainted, it had been so long since I was near there. Ever since the fire, I had only been there twice for the buffet.

SOOoooooooo after saying hello and exchanging pleasantries with several of the regulars, I found myself digging in my pockets for some $ standing on the hook right next to the dealer.

The conditions were as follows:

$5 game, about seven players, and choppy with current shooter in the midst of a decent roll. Previous three shooters were out in ten, fourteen, and two tosses.

I buy in for $400. I'm looking to lay $30 against the 5-6-8-9 with a $5 flat. True to Dave, I still won't lay the 4 or 10. PERIOD. You guys can go back and forth all you want about it, but as another poster stated, this is how Dave plays it so that's how I wrote it when I started this thread.

I receive my chips right before the come out of another point. This current shooter has already made two passes and I saw him throw several 6's and 8's while going for his last pass. He was setting the dice and standing just right of stick, but with his "flying -v" set, it wasn't his throwing that was getting the money, the dude was just damn lucky! Many of his tosses found the dice bouncing back off the wall anywhere from 8-18 inches.

With the table whooping it up, guys high-fiving each other and observing a player make several collections from a $150 six and eight, I decided to wait until this shooter finished his hot roll.

:::10 mins or so later, with some idiot tossing a "FIFTY DOLLAR HARD EIGHT FOR THE SHOOTER!!!" and a tap on the back of the stick man from his new replacement... "SEVEN OUT! OUT SEVEN!"::: For you superstitious players, I don't know if it was the $50 hard eight bet or the stick change. ;D

It took a few minutes to rake in all those multi-colored chips and I knew this was my spot to jump in. Shooter throws a 12 and then establishes a 6. I lay $30 against the six and place a DC bet for $5. "Two craps". I pull the $5, leave the orignal. "Out seven out."

Next Shooter throws a seven and establishes a 10. I don't lay it, and I make my DC bet. He tosses a 9 and I lay it for $30. Next toss, an 8, so I lay it for $30 as well. Next, he throws three, yes THREE yo's in a row. Dc was gettin' whacked! But, I posted another DC and it travels to the 5. I lay it for $30 and place a DC.

"SEVEN OUT!"

Back and forth but trending my way, a half hour passes, they announce my name for my poker seat and I look down to find I'm up $180. At this point I have a DP on the 6 and a DC on the 10 and 4. I pull my DP 6 with odds and turn to the dealer, "the no four and ten is yours." I turn to the pit boss whom I know and tell him how much I'm walking away with and head to the cage to grab a rack for the chips.

You see that's the other part of all of this. You have to listen to that voice that says "walk away". How many times when you're $40, or $25, or... even $5 away from your win goal (for those of your who set them) do you hear that voice and continue to play?

I had made a decision to leave as soon as they called my name. I was happy with that win. You can pick this system or any system apart for that matter. They say systems don't work in the long run and that may be true. One thing I can say is that no system will work if you don't have a system for managing you!
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Golfer
Purple
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 676
Location: Chicagoland

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #189 on 1/7/10 at 21:41 » [Quote]
Hey 2Fist,

Great to hear from you. Congrats on your life in Poker. Is John the dealer doing well over there? How about Dennis the other craps player convert?

I still play mostly in the am and Dave has been there for the past month or so. I guess he is also playing during the week.

Things were good in Dec. , despite a mini meltdown for me in my last session. Stop after 2 whacks is the golden rule.

Maybe I'll see you some day when you get an early start. Good luck at the poker thing.


Golfer
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heavy
Administrator
*******
member is offline

[avatar]

"Remember to play like the pros. Get in - get up - and get gone."


[homepage] [email] [send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,068

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #190 on 1/8/10 at 5:58 » [Quote]
Nice to hear from you again, 2Fist. Thanks for stopping by.
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Golfer
Purple
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 676
Location: Chicagoland

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #191 on 1/9/10 at 17:33 » [Quote]
The system failed the creator today and his lowly disciple. Another big local was also playing dark on the same end. My DC bets of red were between green and black & later, purple lays. After a late arrival I found the bleeding had already started. For me a chronic loss was offset by a successful transition for a 42 minute roll, getting me back to even. Changed tables and found more bloodletting there. Zigs or zags, it didn't matter, the tables were not letting me take anything today. The randies were mostly winning. The creator was still at it when I surrendered.

The cold morning starts do not seem to be around lately. They used to be pretty reliable, but no longer.

Golfer
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DeMango
Black Chip Member
****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Jan 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 200
Location: SouthWest Florida

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #192 on 1/11/10 at 11:18 » [Quote]
It sounds like the creator has gotten greedy. But if his pockets run deep, then just run the whole system in a negative progression as he did in the past, and things will work out. Dealing with variance is what kills almost all. I like Heavy's 1/2 system with $30 lays. MP had some analysis of how many DC bets is ideal some years back. I believe it was two. The day when you collect on 5 lays may be wonderful, but that is equivalent to the right siders 50 roll hand. Does not happen too often!
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
Psalm 14:1a "The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God' "
Proverbs 12:1 "Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge, but he who hates correction is stupid."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Golfer
Purple
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 676
Location: Chicagoland

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #193 on 1/13/10 at 16:44 » [Quote]
I am more comfortable with 3 bets, a Dp and 2 x DC.

Sometimes it works and sometimes it don't on the don't.


Golfer
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CONTINUED...

User avatar
$5Bill
Posts: 1321
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:31 pm

Re: Dave's System

Post by $5Bill » Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:48 am

PART 5



Golfer
Purple
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 676
Location: Chicagoland

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #194 on 1/23/10 at 17:23 » [Quote]
No session today, stayed home and worked on the taxes.

C'mon boys, someone is out there playing. Let's see a report or two.


Golfer

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Governor
Red Chip Member
**
member is offline

[avatar]


[send pm]

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 21
Location: North of Denver, West of Fargo

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #195 on 1/25/10 at 20:20 » [Quote]
Not much to report on for me ...... lets see .....

I went to the local casino on Saturday and proceeded to shoot
my own toes off one at a time .

No shaved dice , no crooked dealers , a good table all to myself and just me hitting my point time and again ..... while shooting darkside .

When I switched sides , ..... well I need not say any more .... ouch !

Not a big deal in the big picture , but any losing session sucks !

The agony of defeat !


Governor
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
If there's a skeleton in your closet,
you might as well make it dance.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Golfer
Purple
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 676
Location: Chicagoland

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #196 on 1/25/10 at 21:00 » [Quote]
It ain't fun.......at times. Other days you cry when you have to leave the casino because it just is so much fun and you don't want it to end. Profitable too.



Golfer


PS Having a slow uneventful day......take a peak at the Axis Power Craps site. Today's hot topic, "Who is Full of Shit Here?"

Ya don't find topics like that just anywhere. C'mon over and take a looksee.
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heavy
Administrator
*******
member is offline

[avatar]

"Remember to play like the pros. Get in - get up - and get gone."


[homepage] [email] [send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,068

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #197 on 1/29/10 at 6:01 » [Quote]
Sometimes you have to get provocative to stimulate a little conversation. Seemed like everyone was nodding off so I pulled that one out. But let's face it. There ARE some guys out there who post their boasts who are absolutely full of it. Bottom line - if it sounds to good to be true it probably is - particularly when no one can corroborate the story.
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Governor
Red Chip Member
**
member is offline

[avatar]


[send pm]

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 21
Location: North of Denver, West of Fargo

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #198 on 1/29/10 at 21:38 » [Quote]
I swung by one of the locals on the way home from work Wed. night
and gave it a go , as I had some free plays to cash in.

I haven't been able to get many week day sessions in lately as
the workload at work has shifted into hyper drive , it beets being
layed off , but those 12 hour shifts are wearing !

A few of the regulars were there , table was choppy .
I did not bet on any of the randies and just decided to go
Plain Jane 6&8 , regress after 1 hit , 5x odds on the point , right side for myself.

I was doing ok and the randies were making a few points too.
A couple of opportunities came up to lay the 4 or 10 after they showed
4 times with no 7 in between ( W7's watching grass grow system ;))

The system paid off 2 times with no losers this time , so with my own decent shooting it was a positive night.

I recovered about 75% from the meltdown last time.

I could have pushed it further but played it safe and locked up the win.
I'll take that on an after work session anytime .......

This game is a marathon , not a sprint ;)

Governor

Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
If there's a skeleton in your closet,
you might as well make it dance.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bobby Bones
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline

[avatar]


[send pm]

Joined: Sept 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 36
Location: Welcome to My World

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #199 on 2/14/10 at 20:36 » [Quote]

1/29/10 at 21:38, Governor wrote:


I could have pushed it further but played it safe and locked up the win.
I'll take that on an after work session anytime .......

This game is a marathon , not a sprint ;)

Governor



Well said Gov;
At the casino this afternoon shooting from sl1, had two short rolls and down a little. Played around with Pacecars' ricchochet and was inching my way back when I thought I saw Dave straight out on other side. Thought maybe he headed South to see some Southern Snow, lol.

Quickly realized it was not Dave as this DP better had $50 on the DP laid triple what "The Dave Sys" calls for. Same with the DC bets plus he didn't quit after two whacks. He did amazingly well and his chip rails swelled. I have to admit I was envious with my small red chip wins but, it's all good.

I thought to myself he should really go while he is up. Guess he didn't know about locking up a profit. CF from straight out went on a Tear. I shifted to the 6 n 8 and weathered the storm. Well, 17 tosses later DP wannabe Dave man was wounded badly.

When the Dice eventually passed to wannabe Dave I noticed he was shooting from the Don't side, ohboy, i've seen this story before, I quickly moved my DP to the Pass line. He proceeded to make 5 passes. He kept loading up on the DP and DC. He didn't shoot himself in the foot, he about shot his whole leg off, lol.

He helped me into the small win category and I locked up a profit and left.

Life is good, all is right in the world.
BB
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heavy
Administrator
*******
member is offline

[avatar]

"Remember to play like the pros. Get in - get up - and get gone."


[homepage] [email] [send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,068

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #200 on 2/15/10 at 21:22 » [Quote]
If you check out the mini-betting strategy demo we're doing over on the APC site http://axispower.proboards12.com on the semi-public thread you'll see a hand developing as thrown by a guy shooting from the Don'ts (me) and getting hammered. Kind of funny to watch now that it's far in the rear view mirror.
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Golfer
Purple
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 676
Location: Chicagoland

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #201 on 2/20/10 at 22:14 » [Quote]
Have gotten whacked the last 3 sessions and am taking a timeout from playing for a couple of weeks to handle some social stuff, including a wedding (no not me, a friend). When I get back to the rail will use more caution with Dave's system and pay more attention to the table trends. Randies have been lighting things up lately.

How is everyone else doing?


Golfer
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
6dollar6
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 72
Location: Illinois

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #202 on 3/1/10 at 15:10 » [Quote]
Hi Golfer

I was in Vegas Mon-Thurs last week. Won a little.

Did not play the don't however.

I would have done well if I did.

As streaky as craps can be, it was streaky on steroids wherever I played.

Long streaks of misses, long streaks of made points, long streaks of naturals, long streaks of the missed point being set by the next shooter.

The don't would have been just the ticket, as would have been the world bet.

I did my normal pass line and single odds with a mild up-as-you-lose progression.

The problem is, it works really well on the chop, but beats hell out of me on cold streaks, and doesn't win me proportionately enough on hot streaks.

I didn't get much time on the chop. So it goes in a craps game.


An interesting side note: my first evening, I get on the elevator and who is on there but possibly the only other living craps player with the same first name as mine (plays at Joliet a lot). He had been there a few days, playing hard, and didn't appear in too good a mood.


See you soon.
6dollar6
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Golfer
Purple
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 676
Location: Chicagoland

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #203 on 3/1/10 at 21:54 » [Quote]
LOL . Go figure to bump in to him. I know who you mean.

I wish I had not been playing the don't the last 3-4 sessions. I think Dave has been scared away as well. Chop and warm randies have dented the bankroll. Layed low for a few weeks and went back Sat morning and whack-whack-whack. When it aiin't fun it is time to run. Climbing back in the hole until the snow goes away.


Later

Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bobby Bones
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline

[avatar]


[send pm]

Joined: Sept 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 36
Location: Welcome to My World

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #204 on 3/2/10 at 18:04 » [Quote]
Has anyone ever compared results of Dave's System on a Hard table v:s Bouncy table?

Recently at a Casino with a Hard table I observed a CFer at SR1 picking the dice up by the axis and tossing them like he knew what he was doing. He wasn't setting the dice. I don't think he even realized that he was indeed a Rythm roller with the Stick actually setting the dice for him.

He had several very reasonable rolls. If he had been on a bouncy table, with the dice bouncing all around. Would the results been the same?

I was at a bouncy table today. I wasn't there very long at all. Setting the dice was useless. The dice hit and bounced around hit the back wall and bounced around some more.

Any thoughts?
BB
« Last Edit: 3/2/10 at 18:10 by Bobby Bones » Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DeMango
Black Chip Member
****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Jan 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 200
Location: SouthWest Florida

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #205 on 3/4/10 at 19:30 » [Quote]
BB;
My first thought is that you need to stay out of the IV!! I do admit they give better offers to me than any other casino on the coast, but that table keeps me away most of the time. ::)
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
Psalm 14:1a "The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God' "
Proverbs 12:1 "Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge, but he who hates correction is stupid."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
isgood
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Feb 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 15

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #206 on 3/4/10 at 20:46 » [Quote]
You know, BB, I have made the mental notes that with a hard table and the random roller is either setting or in some sort of rythym, they seem to have a good enough roll to knock off a Dave's System player. The hard tables give a good true roll for the tosser. A bouncy table doesn't seem to help even the DI.

I remember in Vegas at one of H's seminars we met at a table that had a lot of bounce. There were a lot of PSOs. I was the only one to go to the don'ts and finished the session(which was short--everyone got very frustrated with the bouncyness of the table) on the plus side.

Here in New (casino name deleted per ProBoards TOS) the tables have been recovered and they are hard. I thing there will be more long rolls. I will let you know after tax season. Although all work and no play is not one of my credos. Might go in a week or two. BB, want to take a ride and meet here for an afternoon or late evening?

isgood
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heavy
Administrator
*******
member is offline

[avatar]

"Remember to play like the pros. Get in - get up - and get gone."


[homepage] [email] [send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,068

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #207 on 3/10/10 at 6:32 » [Quote]
If you subscribe to the idea that DI's seek out tables with certain characteristics (and I, for one, prefer hard tables) then it makes sense that Don't players will not fare as well on those types of tables. The weird part in all this is that whenever I see someone catch a monster hand on a bouncy table it is almost always a randy. Sounds like a good "project" for someone to take on.
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Sept 2004
Gender: Male
Posts: 80
Location: Ohio

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #208 on 3/10/10 at 21:09 » [Quote]
H,
On the other hand, if a shooter can influence the dice betting PL, he should also be able to influence for more 7's playing DP.
I also like the hard tables shooting Darkside.
When you getting numerous PSO's and 7's within a few tosses, it's mighty nice.
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bobby Bones
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline

[avatar]


[send pm]

Joined: Sept 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 36
Location: Welcome to My World

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #209 on 3/18/10 at 21:12 » [Quote]
I saw an interesting darkside play recently. I'm such a Dave fan that I will post it here for u guys to critique. When I bought in this chap was at sl1 and the only person with any chips.

He bet $10 on the DP. After point established he layed $66 if 6or 8 and $81 on 5or 9. He didn't stay long and I never saw what he layed on 4 or 10

After point established he would place 3 units on each of the inside number. If the point was 8 he would Place the 569 for 3 units each. After collecting from 3 hits ($66) his place bets were OFF. And he waited for decision.

I've tested it at home with mixed results. Pso's are not very profitable but on the warm table where someone tosses a few numbers before the seven it works well. If the numbers are bullfrogged you sucking wind.

I asked him if he invented this and didn't really care to talk, He colored out shortly after I asked him. He bought in for $500 and colored out $730. Maybe he hit his win goal maybe I pissed him off.

Anyhow, anybody seen this before? Seems a little less volatile than Dave's system. What do ya think??????????????

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Heavy
Administrator
*******
member is offline

[avatar]

"Remember to play like the pros. Get in - get up - and get gone."


[homepage] [email] [send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,068

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #210 on 3/19/10 at 5:27 » [Quote]
So he's laying odds on the point, then place betting the inside numbers for 3 units? Does that include laying the point? I can see placing $48, $51, or $66 inside depending on the point - in tandem with the Don't bet with the lay. I've done something similar many times, but usually just placing the six and eight and usually for just $12 each. If does level out some of the highs and lows.
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bobby Bones
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline

[avatar]


[send pm]

Joined: Sept 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 36
Location: Welcome to My World

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #211 on 3/19/10 at 12:02 » [Quote]

3/19/10 at 5:27, Heavy wrote:
So he's laying odds on the point, then place betting the inside numbers for 3 units? Does that include laying the point? I can see placing $48, $51, or $66 inside depending on the point - in tandem with the Don't bet with the lay. I've done something similar many times, but usually just placing the six and eight and usually for just $12 each. If does level out some of the highs and lows.


Yes, xactly, places $48 - $66 inside depending on the point and lays the point accordingly. He layed 66 if point was 6or 8 looked like $81 lay on 5 and 9. Not sure what the lay would have been on 4 or ten maybe $140?

I started tagging along at $5dp and one unit inside and as soon as he colored in and walked away a randy from straight out bullfrogged the 4 and then the 10. Ouch, Is timing everything?

He came back awhile later and I thought , wow, if he only new. He bought in again and stayed for a short while. He looked like Diamond Jim Brody. Fancy hat lots of bling and he looked Happy.

In practice In addition to turning bets off after three hits I even tried taking my lay down if I collected three times , why chance shooter making point and wiping out the $63 profit. I know the odds would be in our favor to leave the dp up but somehow the Cubes don't care about the odds. It is after all gambling.


BB
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Golfer
Purple
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 676
Location: Chicagoland

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #212 on 3/23/10 at 19:10 » [Quote]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgloaS4NGyM
"On the Dark Side"

My new theme song.

Ran into it by mistake. Hit play and thought, "Oh Yeah". One of those songs you know but have not heard in a long long time. Turn it up guys.

Technology is great. I want all you darksiders to start humming this at the tables when playing the don't. It will drive the dealers nuts. And maybe a shooter or two as well.


Golfer
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heavy
Administrator
*******
member is offline

[avatar]

"Remember to play like the pros. Get in - get up - and get gone."


[homepage] [email] [send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,068

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #213 on 3/23/10 at 19:25 » [Quote]
Ah. Eddie and the Cruisers theme. I guess you haven't seen the movie.
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bobby Bones
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline

[avatar]


[send pm]

Joined: Sept 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 36
Location: Welcome to My World

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #214 on 3/25/10 at 19:56 » [Quote]
Go Golfer;
Oh yeah, Cross that line and slip into the Darkside. Wonder what percentage will actually find the Darkside during their Journey. Maybe u shud post a survey. Enjoyed the tune.
Thanx
BB
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Golfer
Purple
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 676
Location: Chicagoland

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #215 on 3/26/10 at 15:00 » [Quote]
No H, never saw the flick. Any good?

The song is catchy. Just sub the rightside for the Babe and away you go. Croos that line!


Later
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heavy
Administrator
*******
member is offline

[avatar]

"Remember to play like the pros. Get in - get up - and get gone."


[homepage] [email] [send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,068

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #216 on 3/26/10 at 22:36 » [Quote]
The film is about a television reporter investigating the mysterious death of rock musician Eddie Wilson and the search for his band's second album, which disappeared from the vaults of Satin Records the day after Eddie's alleged death. The soundtrack is very Bruce Springsteen-ish. The movie didn't do particularly well at the box office, but found something of a cult following on the small screen. There was also a sequel a few years later (1989) Called Eddie and the Cruisers II - Eddie Lives. The Dark Side was the one great song that came out of the films.
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
elephanttracks
Axis Power Craps Alumni
*****
member is offline



A crap check is a good thing!!!!!!!!!!


[send pm]

Joined: May 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 49

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #217 on 4/11/10 at 9:59 » [Quote]
Hi Guys: This may have been covered before..If so, sorry..What triggers your entry into the dark side?

Is it table charting, a certain # of DP winnersor do you just decide to play the Dark Side before you start playing..

As for me I'm better off charting for a bit even if I'm already in the action....Tracks
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
Lost once , didn't like it , winning is better!!! Dang, lost again!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heavy
Administrator
*******
member is offline

[avatar]

"Remember to play like the pros. Get in - get up - and get gone."


[homepage] [email] [send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,068

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #218 on 4/11/10 at 21:09 » [Quote]
I tend to read players before I start charting. I recall a few years ago, stepping up to a table at the old (casino name deleted per ProBoards TOS) in Bossier and finding that every player at the table was playing the Don'ts. No sense in bucking that trend. I immediately jumped in and reaped the profits.
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2fist
Green Chip Member
***
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Jun 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 30

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #219 on 8/4/10 at 14:13 » [Quote]
Elephanttracks,
Dave doesn't do any charting. He just walks up to the table, buys in, waits for the next shooter and starts playing.
Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Golfer
Purple
*****
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Apr 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 676
Location: Chicagoland

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #220 on 8/4/10 at 20:38 » [Quote]
2Fist, how ya doing??????

How is the poker thing working?

I have moved back to HET with the tables restored. Haven't been to the (casino name deleted per ProBoards TOS) in awhile.

Are you still playing mostly IN?
Have made a few stops at (casino name deleted per ProBoards TOS) and like the All/Tal /Small.

Nice to hear from you.

Golfer
« Last Edit: 8/22/10 at 20:14 by Heavy » Report to Mod - Link to Post - Back to Top IP: Logged
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2fist
Green Chip Member
***
member is offline




[send pm]

Joined: Jun 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 30

Re: "Dave's" system
« Reply #221 on 8/7/10 at 10:58 » [Quote]
Hey Golfer!
Well, poker was great up until about May. Started catching really cold cards and started running bad after many months of running great. Got really busy in June and July, but when I did sit down to play poker... nothing good happening. Decided to take a break from poker until the fall and have been to (casino name deleted per ProBoards TOS) a couple times in the past few weeks. Soo... I'm back to the grind with Dave's playbook for the time being. Glad to hear you are well. I was at the Four Winds back the middle of July. Had never been there. Very nice place and left even! "Even is a win..." ! :)

User avatar
heavy
Site Admin
Posts: 10530
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:46 am
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: Dave's System

Post by heavy » Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:35 am

Whew. Great thread, $5 Bill. Thanks for recovering it for us.
"Get in, get up, and get gone."
- Heavy

memo
Posts: 870
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 4:47 pm

Re: Dave's System

Post by memo » Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:27 pm

Hey Bill,

I am so glad you saved and reposted that thread. I had forgotten much of it, and it was great to re-read.

I enjoyed so much that I started experimeting and playing Dave's on wincraps.
Early on, someone alluded to the fact that testing something like this against an RNG may not be the best way to go.
I would sure like to know if this is true, so if anyone has any input about this...Please let me know. I hate to try this live with real dollars before practcing..

What I do know is that after playing (simulating) for hours...Dave's system is a solid looser for me.
I immediatey dropped 1k, and now stay in a window 600 up or down from that point. I am playing one long game (like Dave) Gutting it out to make my goal...I cant make a win goal, heck, I can't even get out of the hole.

Memo

User avatar
Americraps
Posts: 1090
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:42 pm
Location: Elgin, IL

Re: Dave's System

Post by Americraps » Sun Aug 14, 2011 3:09 pm

Hi all,
Does anyone still see Dave? I thought I heard he was barred from one of the Joliet casinos. Does he still play? Is he still winning? 2Fist, NMN, Golfer- Do you still play this system? What are your results?
After reading this huge thread (thanks $5 bill for posting), I must agree with (another poster) who wrote that it appears that no one is really playing Dave's system. Everyone has an adaptation, and it seems that the most frequent change is violating the-
- If first $500 buy in is lost, he brings out another $500 and will keep doing so up to $3k. After he's in over $1k, he starts laying $180 against the 6/8, $150 against the 5/9 and still nothing ever against the four and ten. OF course, at those levels, his flat bets go up accordingly as this casino offers 10x's odds. rule.
I have played a few negative progressions before and am convinced that the only way they work, is if you are willing to dig for more $. Yes, there has to be an "I give up" point, but no one who has commented on this thread has been willing to go as far as the "Dave". I beleive this could be why noone has really been as successfull as Dave. Your thoughts?
See it in your mind FIRST...Then do it!

memo
Posts: 870
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 4:47 pm

Re: Dave's System

Post by memo » Sun Aug 14, 2011 3:57 pm

Americraps,

I could not agree with you more..And if my early atempts to learn this system are an indication, this thing takes some stamina. That or I am just missing the point. Or, maybe that is the point.... it is just another system, and all systems fail.
It sure sounds promising though.

Memo

User avatar
Americraps
Posts: 1090
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:42 pm
Location: Elgin, IL

Re: Dave's System

Post by Americraps » Sun Aug 14, 2011 9:20 pm

2Fist stated "he has made money 97 out of the last 100 days". If you assume that he lost $3K three times and won an average of $200 97 times, that would put him up $10K or so. 2Fist writes that he is up around $20K , so either his wins are larger, or his loses are smaller (which doesn't seem probable) or the numbers are off. If his average win was $300 and average loss was $3K, that would put him up around $20K. I've always believed that all systems lose in the long run, which is why I am very curious to see if Dave is still out there , and if he is making any money.
See it in your mind FIRST...Then do it!

Bones
Posts: 233
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:36 am
Location: Mississippi

Re: Dave's System

Post by Bones » Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:32 pm

Greetings A;
I played the "Dave" but only bought in for 1G and if I lost enough where I couldn't make the proper bets I didn't buy back in. It is a real roller coaster ride. Plenty of Volatility. There are times when you have about every number covered and the Seven shows, other times they pick u off like a sharpshooter.

One of my problems was being stubborn. I vividly remember bellying up and jumping in despite the fact that the rails on the table were filllled with chips. It was a hot table and i should have waited for a chill to arrive but , oh well.

The biggest problem I had was hanging in while losing more than winning and when the table finally goes ice cold..... Everybody colors in and leaves. Several times I thought to myself, "Wait, come back, it's all good" Then when others start trickling back the table is again choppy.

Thinking about giving it another whirl perhaps tiptoeing in with smaller lays and increasing them as the roll progresses, possibly waiting for one point to be established before jumping in.

I believe there was a Dave sighting mentioned elsewhere on the board.

B
Welcome to my World

The Trend Will End


User avatar
Americraps
Posts: 1090
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:42 pm
Location: Elgin, IL

Re: Dave's System

Post by Americraps » Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:56 pm

BB,
Thanks for replying, good to hear from you. How is your baccarat play going?
See it in your mind FIRST...Then do it!

User avatar
Americraps
Posts: 1090
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:42 pm
Location: Elgin, IL

Re: Dave's System

Post by Americraps » Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:36 pm

I met the "Dave" yesterday in my favorite Illinois casino. I was driving past, coming from travic court with my 17 year old and stopped in to cash a coupon in the AM when I observed a fairly full table with one darksider. I recognized him as a guy I have played with before (and crushed, btw!). I stood next to him watching for a few minutes and observed his play. After a couple of minutes, I asked if he was Dave. He wasn't suprised that I knew his name and had heard of him and that he was kind of famous, lol. He was in the middle of a so far, losing session and I really didn't want to pry too much with the personal questions but he did say he once had a run of 73 straight wins. He said he was a little bit up overall, not much but a little, but that sounded a little too modest for me. I asked him how much he would lay and he said he would lay as much as they would let him, but was bemoaning this casinos recent move to 20x odds limit. I saw him put 10 on the DC and lay it with $150, and I saw him pull all his odds down upon getting knocked off twice, and I saw him not lay the 4 and 10. I asked him why and he said he hates to lose double. Then I had to go as my son was waiting in the lobby. Last night, I was practicing with $5Bill and Iceman, and I made over $200 pretend dollars playing the "Dave".
See it in your mind FIRST...Then do it!

User avatar
heavy
Site Admin
Posts: 10530
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:46 am
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: Dave's System

Post by heavy » Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:56 pm

Sounds like we need to recruit Dave and get him on the forum.
"Get in, get up, and get gone."
- Heavy

Golfer
Posts: 885
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:12 pm

Re: Dave's System

Post by Golfer » Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:24 pm

Americraps, that is great news you met the Man. Nice guy. Low key. Doesn't shoot. He did so well at the other place they banned him.....and he never shot the dice. I was thinking he would be pissed with the drop to 20x odds.

Small chance I might stop by tomorrow afternoon after golf nearby. I say hi for you if I see him.

Golfer

User avatar
Americraps
Posts: 1090
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:42 pm
Location: Elgin, IL

Re: Dave's System

Post by Americraps » Sat Sep 03, 2011 12:20 am

Hi Golfer, I only talked to him for less than 5 minutes, and I never even introduced myself, he seems a little shy as many darksiders tend to be. I am very interested in his system and if it is profitable in any meaningful way. It was interesting to me that he wasn't in the least bit suprised that I had heard of him, so others must be seeking him out and picking his brain. I am really tempted to start playing his system as an augmentation to my own play.
See it in your mind FIRST...Then do it!

Golfer
Posts: 885
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:12 pm

Re: Dave's System

Post by Golfer » Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:52 am

Americraps, learning the darkside in anyway is good. I tried a hit 'n run yesterday after a golf game....damn it was hot. Ran into a warm table and before i knew it I was down 50%, the radar lock was on. Took a walk and tried the other table and made most of it back zigging and zagging, but playing dark mostly. DF's system is ok, Dave's system is ok, but I can not afford continous bets and stop at 3-4. The biggest thing playing dark is not to let your ego kill you.
I think more than anything, darksiders need to do more mini-sessions. Git in git it done git out. Discipline is key, if you don't walk go into TUMA.

Golfer

User avatar
Americraps
Posts: 1090
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:42 pm
Location: Elgin, IL

Re: Dave's System

Post by Americraps » Sat Sep 03, 2011 11:13 am

What is DF's system?
See it in your mind FIRST...Then do it!

User avatar
heavy
Site Admin
Posts: 10530
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:46 am
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: Dave's System

Post by heavy » Sat Sep 03, 2011 1:19 pm

DF just posted this a few days back. As I recall it's a combination of the Patrick System and a Fibonicci progression with some very strict limits on the progression. It sort of reminds me of Professor H's old system (from long long ago) which was a Don't odds progression strategy. But if I remember right Professor H's strategy was a positive progression (press on a win) while the Fibo is a negative progression. Confusing? Yeah, I guess so.
"Get in, get up, and get gone."
- Heavy

Golfer
Posts: 885
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:12 pm

Re: Dave's System

Post by Golfer » Sat Sep 03, 2011 5:34 pm

Read DF's posts he caps it at 2 $75 bets and then goes eats. Just kidding on the eats. DF, why don't you jump in and restate. Americraps met Dave the other day...maybe he can suggest your play to Dave????

Post Reply